Introduction
This article introduces the process of adapting (or converting) a web page from one markup language to another. It discusses how to adapt a HTML web page to GRML. Two examples are provided. The first demonstrates how to extract hyperlinks from an HTML web page and convert it to GRML. The second demonstrates how to do this with images. These examples require server-side processing. Here, IIS, Active Server Pages (ASP), and PERL are used.
Background
It is recommended to have some experience with ASP and PERL. PERL has regular expression support that is used to extract the hyperlinks and images from the web page. Any server-side scripting environment does this, including .NET, CGI, or PHP. However, PERL and ASP are used for this article. While PERL is required, the server-side scripting language specifically used is PerlScript. To use PerlScript, download a PERL interpreter. To get one that works with IIS, try ActivePerl. If not done already, read Introducing GRML and Using GRML. These articles provide explanations of what GRML is and how it is used.
What is an Adapter?
An adapter is generally defined as...
an object that converts the original interface of a component to another interface.
For the purposes of this article, the definition of an adapter is...
server-side processing or scripting that converts one markup language to another.
This definition describes converting HTML to GRML using ASP. The adapter object is the ASP scripting, the original interface is HTML, and the other interface is GRML.
Depending on what is being converted, adapters need to read from the original interface and write to the other interface. In other words, an adapter needs an interface reader and an interface writer. A HTML to GRML adapter requires a HTML reader and a GRML writer.
Adapting hyperlinks and images
HTML does not describe many elements of its content. For example, there is no way to determine the attributes of one text block from another. However, not all HTML content is without description. It does have specific tags for hyperlinks and images.
Using a specific tag to identify content makes it possible to create a script that reads only those tags. When found, the unwanted tag elements are removed, leaving only the content. The script then writes the content in the new format or markup language. This is how it adapts HTML hyperlinks or images to GRML.
The Hyperlink adapter
The use of the <a href=> tag allows a HTML web browser to identify which text is a hyperlink. This tag is the basis for the hyperlink adapter. It extracts all hyperlinks from an HTML web page and converts them to GRML.
Below is an example of a HTML to GRML hyperlinks adapter, using PerlScript:
<%@ Language="PerlScript%">
<HTML>
<center>
<form action=links.asp>
URL to extract: <input type=text name=url1 length=60>
<input type=submit>
</form>
</center>
<!--
<grml>
<edit url1>
<title>Enter URL:>
<%
use HTML::LinkExtor;
use URI::URL;
use LWP;
my $url, $html;
# Parsing the Request
$url = $Request->QueryString("url1")->Item();
$Response->Write("<submit>\n");
$Response->Write("<location>GRMLBrowser.com/links.asp\n");
$Response->Write("</submit>\n");
$Response->Write("<edit url1>\n");
$Response->Write("<text>$url\n");
$Response->Write("</edit>\n");
if ($url eq "")
{
$Response->Write("</GRML>\n");
}
else
{
if ($url !~ /http:\/\//)
{
$url = "http://". $url;
}
}
# Constructing the Request
$_ = $sites;
# Retrieving the Response/Resultset
# - Filtering the Resultset (optional)
my $ua = LWP::UserAgent->new(agent => "Mozilla 4.0");
my $request = HTTP::Request->new('GET', $url);
my $response = $ua->request($request);
unless ($response->is_success)
{
print $response->error_as_HTML . "\n";
exit(1);
}
my $res = $response->content(); # content without HTTP header
$Response->Write("<column>\n");
$Response->Write("<Title>\n");
$Response->Write("<Request>\n");
$Response->Write("<link>\n");
$Response->Write("</column>\n");
$Response->Write("<result>\n");
$res =~ s/\n/ /gsi;
while($res =~ m|href=(.+?)>(.*?)</A>|gsi) ## that's all ...
{
my $temp_link = $1;
my $temp_item = $2;
$temp_link =~ s/\'//gsi;
$temp_link =~ s/\"//gsi;
$temp_link =~ s/ (.*)//gsi;
$temp_link =~ s/<b>//gsi;
$temp_link =~ s/<\/b>//gsi;
$temp_link =~ s/&/\&/gsi;
$temp_link =~ s/\n(.*)//gsi;
$temp_item =~ s/<b>//gsi;
$temp_item =~ s/<\/b>//gsi;
$temp_item =~ s/<(.+?)>//gsi;
$temp_item =~ s/<\/font>//gsi;
$temp_item =~ s/&/\&/gsi;
$temp_item =~ s/ / /gsi;
$temp_item =~ s/"/\"/gsi;
$temp_item =~ s/\n(.*)//gsi;
$temp_item =~ s/\n/ /gsi;
$temp_item =~ s/ (.*)//gsi;
$temp_item =~ s/ (.*)//gsi;
if ($temp_item !~ /img src=/)
{
if ($temp_link !~ /$url/ && $temp_link !~ /\/\//)
{
$temp_link = $url . "\/" . $temp_link;
}
$temp_item =~ s/\n//gsi;
$temp_link =~ s/\n//gsi;
$Response->Write("<link>$temp_link\n");
$Response->Write("<title>$temp_item\n");
}
$Response->Write("<request>$url\n");
$Response->Write("\n\n");
}
$Response->Write("</result>\n");
$Response->Write("</GRML>\n");
%>
-->
</html>
What the above code does is it creates a form in HTML that extracts all the hyperlinks from a web page. The hyperlinks (and their titles) are formatted using GRML. To view GRML, a GRML web browser is required (such as Pioneer Report MDI).
All of the server-side scripting is used as the HTML reader. Only the following lines are used as the GRML writer. They are:
$Response->Write("\n");
$Response->Write("\n");</CODE>
<LI><CODE lang=perlscript>$Response->Write("<Request>\n");</CODE>
<LI><CODE lang=perlscript>$Response->Write("<link>\n");</CODE>
<LI><CODE lang=perlscript>$Response->Write("</column>\n");</CODE>
<LI><CODE lang=perlscript>$Response->Write("<result>\n");</CODE>
<LI><CODE lang=perlscript>$Response->Write("<link>$temp_link\n");</CODE>
<LI><CODE lang=perlscript>$Response->Write("<title>$temp_item\n");</CODE>
<LI><CODE lang=perlscript>$Response->Write("<request>$url\n");</CODE>
<LI><CODE lang=perlscript>$Response->Write("</result>\n");</CODE> </LI></UL>
<P>Only the last three lines format the hyperlinks using GRML. The first two lines create the form in the browser window of a GRML web browser and do not use the adapted HTML hyperlinks.</P>
<P>To see the above in action, go to <A href="http://grmlbrowser.com/links.asp" target=_blank>Hyperlink adapter</A> or copy the above script to a file and host it from a local web server. Once the web page is displayed, enter a URL and press the 'Submit' button. It displays all the hyperlinks extracted from the HTML web page formatted in GRML.</P>
<P>After adapting hyperlinks from HTML to GRML, this is how it appears in a GRML web browser (using Pioneer Report MDI):</P>
<P><IMG height=351 src="/KB/aspnet/adaptingGRML/PRM1_001.jpg" width=425></P>
<H2>The Image adapter</H2>
<P>Using the <CODE lang=html><img src=></CODE> tag, a script is able to find and extract images from HTML. By reading this tag and removing unwanted tag elements, the HTML images are converted to GRML. The following script demonstrates this:</P><PRE lang=perlscript><span class="code-pagedirective"><%@</span><span class="code-leadattribute"> Language</span><span class="code-keyword">="</span><span class="code-keyword">PerlScript%"</span><span class="code-attribute">>
<center>
<form action</span><span class="code-keyword">=translate.asp</span><span class="code-attribute">>
URL to translate: <input type</span><span class="code-keyword">=text</span><span class="code-attribute"> name</span><span class="code-keyword">=url1</span><span class="code-attribute"> length</span><span class="code-keyword">=60</span><span class="code-attribute">>
<input type</span><span class="code-keyword">=submit</span><span class="code-attribute">>
</form>
</center>
<!--
<grml>
<edit url1>
<title>Enter URL:
</edit>
<%
use HTML::LinkExtor;
use URI::URL;
use LWP;
my $url, $html;
# Parsing the Request
$url </span><span class="code-keyword">=</span><span class="code-attribute"> $Request->QueryString("url1")->Item();
if ($url eq "")
{
$Response->Write("</GRML>\n");
}
else
{
if ($url !~ /http:\/\//)
{
$url </span><span class="code-keyword">= "</span><span class="code-keyword">http://"</span><span class="code-attribute"> . $url;
}
}
$Response->Write("### URL ###\n\n");
$Response->Write("The url is: $url\n\n");
# Constructing the Request
$_ </span><span class="code-keyword">=</span><span class="code-attribute"> $sites;
# Retrieving the Response/Results
# - Filtering the Results (optional)
my $ua </span><span class="code-keyword">=</span><span class="code-attribute"> LWP::UserAgent->new(agent </span><span class="code-keyword">=</span><span class="code-attribute">> "my agent V1.00");
my $request </span><span class="code-keyword">=</span><span class="code-attribute"> HTTP::Request->new('GET', $url);
my $response </span><span class="code-keyword">=</span><span class="code-attribute"> $ua->request($request);
unless ($response->is_success)
{
print $response->error_as_HTML . "\n";
exit(1);
}
my $res </span><span class="code-keyword">=</span><span class="code-attribute"> $response->content(); # content without HTTP header
my @imgs </span><span class="code-keyword">=</span><span class="code-attribute"> ();
my @hrefs </span><span class="code-keyword">=</span><span class="code-attribute"> ();
# Make the parser. Unfortunately, we don't know the base yet
# (it might be diffent from $url)
my $p </span><span class="code-keyword">=</span><span class="code-attribute"> HTML::LinkExtor->new(\&callback);
$p->parse($res);
# Expand all image URLs to absolute ones
my $base </span><span class="code-keyword">=</span><span class="code-attribute"> $response->base;
@imgs </span><span class="code-keyword">=</span><span class="code-attribute"> map { $_ </span><span class="code-keyword">=</span><span class="code-attribute"> url($_, $base)->abs; } @imgs;
$Response->Write("<column>\n");
$Response->Write("<image>\n");
$Response->Write("<link>\n");
$Response->Write("</column>\n\n");
$Response->Write("<result>\n");
foreach (@imgs)
{
$Response->Write("<image>$_\n");
}
$Response->Write("\nLinks:\n");
foreach (@hrefs)
{
my $temp </span><span class="code-keyword">=</span><span class="code-attribute"> $_;
if ($temp !~ /$url/ && $temp !~ /\/\//)
{
$temp </span><span class="code-keyword">=</span><span class="code-attribute"> $url . "\/" . $temp;
}
$Response->Write("<link>$temp\n");
}
sub callback
{
my($tag, %attr) </span><span class="code-keyword">=</span><span class="code-attribute"> @_;
push(@imgs , values %attr) if $tag eq 'img';
push(@hrefs, values %attr) if $tag eq 'a';
}
</span><span class="code-pagedirective">%></span>
<span class="code-keyword"><</span><span class="code-keyword">/</span><span class="code-leadattribute">result</span><span class="code-keyword">></span>
<span class="code-keyword"><</span><span class="code-keyword">/</span><span class="code-leadattribute">GRML</span><span class="code-keyword">></span>
--></PRE>
<P>The above script is used as an HTML reader, except for the lines used to build the columns and each result. These lines are the GRML writer:</P>
<UL>
<LI><CODE lang=perlscript>$Response->Write("<column>\n");</CODE>
<LI><CODE lang=perlscript>$Response->Write("<image>\n");</CODE>
<LI><CODE lang=perlscript>$Response->Write("<link>\n");</CODE>
<LI><CODE lang=perlscript>$Response->Write("</column>\n\n");</CODE>
<LI><CODE lang=perlscript>$Response->Write("<result>\n");</CODE>
<LI><CODE lang=perlscript>$Response->Write("<image>$_\n");</CODE>
<LI><CODE lang=perlscript>$Response->Write("<link>$temp\n");</CODE>
<LI><CODE lang=perlscript>$Response->Write("</result>\n");</CODE> </LI></UL>
<P>Once the image content has been adapted to GRML, this is how it looks in a GRML web browser (using Pioneer Report MDI):</P>
<P><IMG height=351 src="/KB/aspnet/adaptingGRML/PRM1_002.jpg" width=425></P>
<H2>Conclusion</H2>
<P>Converting HTML to GRML is possible when using an adapter. Only the content with identifiable tags are adaptable from one markup language to another. In the case of HTML, there are tags to identify hyperlinks and images.</P>
<P>The examples described for adapting content show how to convert HTML hyperlinks or images to GRML. The adapter consists of a HTML reader and a GRML writer. Using this adapter, a web page viewed with a HTML web browser is viewable using a GRML web browser.</P>
<H2>Latest changes</H2>
<UL>
<LI>09/03/04
<UL>
<LI>Using GRML v1.2 in code samples. </LI></UL>
<LI>10/08/04
<UL>
<LI>Using GRML v2.3 in code samples. Pioneer Report MDI 3.64 uses GRML v1.2 while all other GRML web browsers use v2.3. </LI></UL></LI></UL>
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<b><a id="ctl00_AboutAuthorRptr_ctl00_AboutAuthor_memberProfileLink" href="/Members/Toby-Jacob-Rhodes">Toby Jacob Rhodes</a></b><br /><br />
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Developing with MFC for a couple of years now. Working at getting my new web browsers just right.<br />
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<td colspan="2">The lack or real application and distincly "boiler plate" writing, like including a "conclusion" section that states the obvious sure make this look like someone just publishing their school papers for masters or phd work, possibly trying to doctor a resume up or other ....<br />
<br />
I do find the articles amusing though, so I for one won't complain if more get published, lol. <br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">The responses to this article have proven one thing to me: a lot of people rate their impression of the subject matter rather than the quality of the article.<br />
<br />
I'm not big on the idea of GRML so I doubt I'll ever use it. That doesn't mean the article is garbage though. I think some of the code presented was interesting and could come in handy. The article is reasonably well written and fairly easy to understand.<br />
<br />
So, although GRML isn't my cup of tea, I'll give the article a 4.<br />
<br />
Drew. <br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">I am glad you were able to get something out of the article, even if GRML is not your style.<br />
<br />
It lets me know what to focus on when writing new articles. <br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">I have my own design for a round, flat artifact which is very distinct from the wheel, but has more functionality. Unfortunately, I can't convince anyone that my invention is better than the billions of wheels aready in use because everyone already uses it and have no reason to replace it even though my invention is clearly superior, as described on my website. <br />
<br />
Bit shift to the left, bit shift to the right.<br />
Push stack, pop stack, byte, byte byte!<br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">That's even harder if your "new-wheel" pattern is triangle-shaped, and every-one is already using flying cars... <br />
<br />
Michael CARBENAY<br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">On highways, it is very dangerous to drive with wheels make out of rubber, because they can burst. This poses a great security risk. My invention is specifically made out of solid steel, a material impervious to bursting because it doesn't have the functionality of air cussions. The lack of air is not a lack of functionality, but is actually a feature which makes my invention better because it is safer. <br />
<br />
Bit shift to the left, bit shift to the right.<br />
Push stack, pop stack, byte, byte byte!<br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">Owww... shi... <br />
I was planning to build my triangular-shaped wheel out of concrete... Now it will look like a poor copy of your magnificient device...<br />
<br />
I'm so sorry I think that I will go and hang myself (by the way I've got another new device : it's a rubber cord for hanging, It will be a great archievement to safety for suicide. I already have sent a sample to the health-care system and I'm waiting for their remarks <img src="/script/Forums/Images/smiley_wink.gif" align="top" alt="Wink | ;)" /> )<br />
<br />
(okay, the last one was not a new joke but hey, I'm only a coder I'm not supposed to have ideas) <br />
<br />
Michael CARBENAY<br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">Okay, as many others, I'll ask ONE question : what is the purpose of GRML ?<br />
<br />
To me it's look like a copycat of XML, with a rather strange model (sorry). Looking at your website, I've found the followind grml snippet :<br />
<code><br />
<grml> <br />
<a control=result_13 type=Item>Jul 28</> <br />
<a control=result_13 type=Item>Sr. Java Software Engineer</> <br />
<a control=result_13 type=Item>US-CA-La Jolla</> <br />
<a control=result_13 type=Item>Company A</> <br />
<a control=result_13 type=Item>Java LA</> <br />
<a control=result_13 type=Item>Today</> <br />
<br />
...<br />
<br />
<a control=column_13 type=Item>Date Posted</> <br />
<a control=column_13 type=Item>Job Title</> <br />
<a control=column_13 type=Item>Job Location</> <br />
<a control=column_13 type=Item>Company</> <br />
<a control=column_13 type=Item>Search</> <br />
<a control=column_13 type=Item>DateTime</> <br />
</grml> <br />
</code><br />
<br />
and you say that assigned to a listview it should build a nice listview with an header (containing the last line of data). My question is: how ? that's pretty bad designed, with no hierarchy of data or anything.<br />
<br />
Please consider the almost equivalent XML Snippet (not the best I can do, but I don't want a pulizer for this post):<br />
<Data><br />
<Header><Col>Date Posted</Col><Col>......</Col></Header><br />
<Item><Col>Jul 28</Col><Col>Java ....</Col></Item><br />
</Data><br />
<br />
A nice XSLT on that snippet and you'll get a real HTML (or XAML if you want GUI) that display the data. If you want to parse and display by yourself, you'll have SAX or any other xml-parser to simplify the process... <br />
<br />
Michael CARBENAY<br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">Read the article Introducing GRML. It explains the purpose of GRML and why it exists.<br />
<br />
The XML above is nested, which is something that GRML specifically avoids. Plus, there are multiple items per line. That is something else GRML was designed to avoid. In my opinion, it is not very easy on the eyes when looking through a file or web page.<br />
<br />
I have considered hierarchical data, but sometimes you just have to decide to do one thing and not try to do too much. There are not too many examples of hierachical web content, outside of navigation.<br />
<br />
This message board is an example of hierarchical data, but most message boards use a flat scheme. So, it was a design decision not to focus on it.<br />
<br />
If hierarchical data is in demand, there are ways for GRML to support it. However, you are the first person to mention it, after 2 years!.<br />
<br />
The markup language definitely needs to be streamlined. That is a priority upgrade before releasing the next GRML web browser.<br />
<br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">Okay, so GRML is about :<br />
<br />
* mixing data AND view in the same content-holder (file)<br />
* being touchy about the way the data is displayed in the SOURCE file (you say that there should not be 2 items on the same line)<br />
* build a flat representation of data<br />
<br />
Am I Right ? If yes, GRML is clearly not for me...<br />
<br />
I, in fact, have on question on the code sample I have seen on your website : how do a parser understand the code ? It lacks a clear separator between items (or is it the blank line ?), it don't have a clue about which line IS the header and which are the dataitem (okay I understand that the control tag seems the way to do it but it's not really clear when first reading your sample column_13 is not what I found explicit...). If that's so, you should make some effort in building a SGML-derived "language" with attributes that are more easy to understand at first glance.<br />
<br />
If I really have a advice for your "next release" of GRML : make it a subset of XML (or mabye simply an XML with a good DTD), and add a small but useful nesting support, I strongly suggest at least one level to divide heading and data and/or heading and form. <br />
<br />
Michael CARBENAY<br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">I suggest reading Introducing GRML with regard to the data and view. Take note of the Quick Reference. It provides a brief summary of the web formats and how the terms data, form, and view are used in GRML.<br />
<br />
You are right about being touchy about the way data appears in the source file. I spend a lot of time preparing and using hard-to-read data files, so any effort to make them more readable is time well spent, in my opinion.<br />
<br />
Correct about the flat representation of data. It is used by so many data sources (databases, spreadsheets, assorted analysis tools) and has proven itself over the years.<br />
<br />
Right again about the parser handling the example GRML. It is needlessly complicated. There are going to be some real improvements to drop the size and number of required elements of each tag. It makes the parser code easier to maintain and minimizes file sizes without losing any features or potential upgrades.<br />
<br />
I have been considering the best way to add hierarchical support and distinguish form and data elements. However, there is no way GRML is going to require or use nesting to specify item attributes.<br />
To me, nesting says object-oriented. That is not the direction GRML is heading.<br />
<br />
Having said that, these are not easy issues to resolve, but know that they will be a part of the upcoming improvements.<br />
<br />
GRML is not for everyone. It may not be for most people. Fortunately, it does not depend on any of those things. GRML is designed to just work, without a lot of effort.<br />
<br />
Get your data. Add some GRML tags. Use it the way you want. This does not appeal to everyone. That's okay. <br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">Okay let's say that I make a suggestion :<br />
The point is to create a simpler GRML (let's call it SGRML), with easy to understand tags, my snippet would look like :<br />
<code><sgrml><br />
<header col="1">Date Posted</header><br />
<header col="2">Job Title</header><br />
<header col="3">Job Location</header><br />
...<br />
<item col="1">Jul 28</item><br />
<item col="2">Web Development Analyst</item><br />
<item col="3">US-WI-La Crosse</item><br />
...<br />
</sgrml></code><br />
is-it enough streamlined and easy to read ? I think so. it don't have esoteric <a> tag that mean at the same time many many things (by the way don't closing your <a> tag by a simple </> break the SGML rules ? I'll check on w3c but I think that it is the case). You can even add a <input> tag for the "form" part ! and if you don't like the col attribute, drop it ! <br />
<br />
Michael CARBENAY<br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">I see what you are doing. Specifying the column is a good idea. Defining each item also looks useful.<br />
<br />
Column definition and item grouping are good. Plus, it has the added bonus of a smaller file size. So, this is my idea...<br />
<br />
<code><br />
<column><br />
<date>Date Posted<br />
<title>Job Title<br />
<loc>Job Location<br />
</column><br />
<br />
<result><br />
<date>Jul 28<br />
<title>Web Development Analyst<br />
<loc>US-WI-La Crosse<br />
<link>http://someurl<br />
<image>http://someiamge.jpg<br />
<br />
<date>Jul 20<br />
<title>Web Development Analyst<br />
<loc>US-WI-La Crosse <br />
<link>http://thisurl<br />
<image>http://thaturl.gif<br />
</result><br />
</code><br />
<br />
This is much simpler than the current syntax, and easier to parse.<br />
<br />
Those were some good ideas. Do you want a credit or a link? <br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">That was my point : building something easy to understand, small and simple to parse.<br />
I'll add a closing tag to each of the data through, making it a well-formed SGML syntax like :<br />
<code><br />
<column><br />
<date>Date Posted<b></date></b><br />
...<br />
</column><br />
</code><br />
or you could set the value in an attribute like (and closing the tag with a end marker (/) for "well-formedness") :<br />
<code><br />
<column><br />
<date <b>value="Date Posted" </b>/><br />
...<br />
</column><br />
</code><br />
That will make the file a little bit bigger but will allow for easier parsing using regular expressions or hand-made parser. <br />
<br />
Michael CARBENAY<br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">So we agree it should:<br />
<br />
be easy to read or browse when viewing the source,<br />
be easy to parse using C++/regular expressions, and<br />
have the smallest file size possible.<br />
<br />
I am considering using an end tag for each item. The only problem is someone might think they can spread content over multiple lines. The next thing you know, they are trying to create a HTML style web page using GRML. Then, they will want bold tags, and tables, and it is just HTML all over again.<br />
<br />
Parsing, with or without the end tag seems to be the same (I tried both C++ and Perl just to make sure).<br />
<br />
Using the <code><col value=... /></code> approach has the advantage of no end tag. When parsing, you have to worry about people doing value="value="hello"" or something similar.<br />
<br />
I am going to test out all these approaches and figure out which one works the best.<br />
<br />
Thanks for the suggestions. <br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">Okay,<br />
<br />
I still don't think about using GRML but at least it won't hurt my feelings so much <img src="/script/Forums/Images/smiley_wink.gif" align="top" alt="Wink | ;)" /> <br />
<br />
The last thing I'll say about GRML is that you should find a way to "end-tag" your tags (or at least to find a way for not using carriage returns as the end of tag), that have 2 benefits :<br />
<br />
* Allow for multilines (even if you don't find it interesting, it really is, I will never forget a 2500 chars line I've seen in a HTML file on an old project). New lines in a xml file,for example, are useful only for "source-code" reading and are mostly ignored by the parser<br />
* make UNIX/Windows/Mac file transfer more easy : you won't have to check the whole CrLf/Cr/Lf matter if you have a close tag : the tag starts with a <code><xx></code> and end with a <code><xx></code> and that's all ! In a HTTP world it will help (a little) the ease of tranfer.<br />
<br />
Hopefully, you'll find a way about that all (and I'v not said that XML is mostly the way.... oooops, holy sh... I've said it !!;P). <br />
<br />
Michael CARBENAY<br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">What is the purpose or GRML? I have not been able to understand what the difference between it and the existing languages currently employed. I'd appreciate some clarification on this matter.<br />
<br />
Also, if you want to create a new language, the best idea would be to make a recommendation to the <a href="http://www.w3.org">W3C</a>[<a target=_blank title='New Window' href="http://www.w3.org">^</a>]. Try posting on the forums. Beware on their forums though, there are a lot of ultra-smart people there. <br />
<br />
--<br />
Aaron Eldreth<br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">There is a lot to do when trying to get a markup language started.<br />
<br />
I remember when HTML was getting started in the early 90s. It was difficult to understand what the capabilities of HTML were.<br />
<br />
It took a lot of time and a lot of effort, but eventually it proved itself.<br />
<br />
GRML has to go through the same stages. It is a natural progression.<br />
<br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">Please stop submitting articles on GRML.<br />
<br />
After reading your previous articles, viewing your website, etc., I've come to the conclusion that you aren't trying to solve a problem with any of your technology. Successful technology is made when a problem is discovered, and the solution is appropriately crafted, usually by modifying an existing solution.<br />
<br />
You are doing the exact opposite. You have spent a lot of effort creating a solution. Now, you're trying to shoehorn your solution into a series of problems that don't exist.<br />
<br />
According to your website, you're trying to reduce costs. However, you're doing it in such a way that a)people's existing skillsets cannot be used, b)relies on an unproven and nonstandard technology, c)requires the use of your client app rather than a standard browser [thereby increasing support costs], d)generates markup that is generally larger than the same page in HTML would be, e)has no real users (on your site forum, the largest forum had 10 posts) and f)is incompatible with the vast majority of software for people with disabilities, such as screen readers. <br />
<br />
Not even your own forum is done in GRML, so how can we trust a technology that you don't even use for yourself?<br />
<br />
It's obvious that you have some programming skill for writing parsers and the like, but your ego that is driving you to push out these vanity articles to push your self-named "standard" is going to hold you back. Grow up, find your problems first, then solve them. <br /></td>
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<td class="msg-footer"><a class="toolbar" href="http://www.codeproject.com/script/Membership/LogOn.aspx?rp=%2fArticles%2f8170%2fAdapting-GRML">Sign In</a>·<a class="toolbar" href="/Articles/8170/Adapting-GRML?fid=100142&df=90&mpp=25&sort=Position&tid=915760" title="View Thread">View Thread</a>·<a class="toolbar" href="/Messages/915760/GRML-Useless.aspx" title="Get permanent link">Permalink</a></td><td class="msg-footer" align="right"><span id="MVF915760">4.11/5 (4 votes) </span></td>
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<td width="34px" class="Frm_MsgIndent"><a name="xx915812xx"></a><img height="16px" width="16px" align="top" src="/script/Forums/Images/msg_general.gif" alt="General" /></td><td class="Frm_MsgSubject hover-container"><a class="message-link" name="915812" parent="915760" thread="915760" href="/Messages/915812/Re-GRML-Useless.aspx">Re: GRML Useless</a> <a onclick="return Pin(this);" href="#" title="Click to pin message"><img src="http://s.codeproject.com/script/Forums/Images/pin.gif" border="0" align="top" alt="Pin" width="13px" height="12px" /></a></td><td class="Frm_MsgIcon"><img border="0" src="http://s.codeproject.com/App_Themes/Std/Img/icn-member-16.gif" title="member" alt="member" height="16px" /></td><td class="Frm_MsgAuthor"><a href="/script/Membership/View.aspx?mid=43164">AK</a></td><td class="Frm_MsgDate" valign="top" nowrap="nowrap">7:14 3 Sep '04 </td>
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<td colspan="2">don't be quite so rude <img src="/script/Forums/Images/smiley_redface.gif" align="top" alt="Blush | :O" /> <br /></td>
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<td colspan="2">First, let me say thanks for the input. It is always helpful to know what you think and your impressions.<br />
<br />
It is unfortunate, but my website is still being developed. There is a lot of work yet to do in conveying the right message regarding GRML. If you are monitoring its progress, expect to see continual changes as work is completed.<br />
<br />
The only thing to say about GRML right now is that there is so much left to do before everything is explained in the proper detail.<br />
<br />
One step at a time. I have to remind myself, "Rome wasn't built in a day."<br />
<br /></td>
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