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Remember, America is just waking up. It is only 7:10 in the morning! 
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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that you'll need more than just developers. 
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we are just discussing it,
many people here have their own consulting firms , and i cant see why it wouldnt be a good idea if some of us outsource/sell parts of projects to other small companies. (?)
//Roger
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Yes, I think it should be something like a joint-venture of interested small companies.
Greetings,
heinz r. vahlbruch
c++ & c# programmer from germany
If IntelliSense doesn't have it, it ain't worth calling - Anonymous
My compiler compiled yours - Seen on a VC++.Net T-Shirt
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And people that don't have their own companies can join in. Payments can always be redirected through some company. That should not be any problem.
With this arrangement we could take on bigger projects.
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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I might be interested
- Anders
Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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If any of one's CP Projects (UGLY, SF or DTSC) successful then I would say your virtual company formula works.
So let's root for CP Projects first.
I would love to join, but my hands are full now. Good Luck.
"...if you don't want to hear things that piss you off don't piss off other people. SIMPLE." - Steven Hicks
This signature was created by "Code Project Quoter".
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Virtual company is more about finding work than doing programming. That is the difference and these two concepts should not be mixed.
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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However, the aspect of coordination is the same.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
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jhaga wrote:
finding work than doing programming
If you find the work then who will do the programming?
"...if you don't want to hear things that piss you off don't piss off other people. SIMPLE." - Steven Hicks
This signature was created by "Code Project Quoter".
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Of course we all are programmers but by coordinating and helping each other under a Virtual Company it will be easier give over work to somebody else and get payed for it.
Sometimes people ask me to do big projects but I can't take them, and I don't get them because we are only three people working in my company. Being part of a Virtual Company with 20 programmers with different skills, would give me a possibility to accept projects even in areas were I don't have the needed skill.
Who will do what, how much to pay, etc we will work out once we have enough with interested people.
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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Hey, I'm in! 
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
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I finally wandered over to this forum and noticed your post. I think it's a great idea, but if you can't get people to work well together within one company and physically next to each other, how in the world are you going to succeed in a virtual environment?
I'm not trying to throw a wet blanket on your idea, it's just that I've been wondering about this problem for 20 years now. I've had varied success with working long distance with my clients (more success than failure), but I've found it much more difficult to work remotely with other programmers.
Maybe money is a motivator to get people to work, but I typically find that quality is nearly impossible to maintain in long distance programmer to programmer relationships. This is primarily due to a much narrower communication bitrate and reduced bandwidth. It's easy for me to walk over to the next guy and ask "how's it going?", and check out his/her code remotely as it's being developed. It's a lot harder to do that in a virtual company. That, coupled with the lack of perceived project leadership (which is addressed primarily by the physical proximity effect, ie, the big stick), makes for some difficult times.
However, if there were some technical solutions available, such as www.gotomypc.com and the like, to facilitate monitoring, communication, and decision making, then I think a virtual company would have a better chance of success. Identifying what tools exist, how to use them, and what tools are needed might be the first step.
I also think that people need to "buy in" to the company, (yes, with $$$), sort of like a co-op. Initial membership fees, different levels of membership coupled to different voting rights on company direction, "stock options", etc.
Marc
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
A doable project is one that is small enough to be done quickly and big enough to be interesting - Ken Orr
CPP Script Framework Design Page
Latest AAL Article
AAL blog
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This idea presents a very interesting problem. I think that integrity is one, motivation is another not forgetting unity of course. Some basic goals go like this. Talk is cheap.
1. Biggest problem is Capital. First project comes in. It's a client wanting a database application running on SQL Server 6.0 using Microsoft Transaction server 1.0. The client wants to use this application world-wide and it needs to interface with SAP R/3 release 4.6D. Oh yes, all this has to run on Windows NT 4.0 Server.
- I can provide a machine and I can provide a 640 KBPS connection to the server. I can provide all the software except SAP. If we have 10 developers who can work on this project we need to purchase a 10 user VPN license for my firewall at $175. We all need copies of Visual Studio 6.0 Enterprise Edition (It's a VB project but you need Studio to compile some of the ATL libraries that come with SAP.) Only 4 of us currently have it so we need 6 copies. There will be other costs involved and these will have to be offset somewhere.
- Do you expect the client to pay a retainer so that we can buy the tools? How do you handle this?
- Who works on getting us more work while the rest of us code on this?
- How do we pay for advertising?
* For something like this to be succesful either people pay in at least $1000 to get going.
2. Who is going to manage the books? Where will the company be located for taxable and import purposes?
3. How do we determine who gets paid what? Is it an even split down the middle? What if one person does more work and if they do, how do they prove it?
4. The customer is unhappy, they live in the United States and they decide to sue to get their money back. What then?
5. A deadline is approaching. It's two days away we all have 48 hours to get the project done and there are at least 160 code hours left. How can you guarantee that enough people won't have other things going on? Do you contract the remaining work out to developers for hire?
6. Is there a limit to how many people can participate. What if 100 pay a $1000 bucks to join but there is not enough work to bring them into the project?
7. This is similar to 6. But what if you have enough work for 6 developers and 20 are interested and ready to go. Who will the first 6 be and how will you decide that?
____________________________________________________________________________________
I could go on and on.
First step then is for someone to develop a business plan. Put the ideas down on paper map them out. Maybe two people do it together. You will need to consult an attorney and other agencies to understand the international aspects of doing business. Perhaps the people that do the business plan can waive the $1000 or whatever fee...
Someone post a business plan first, perhaps as a CP article then others help to revise it and focus it. Once a solid business plan is in place and all the "gotchas" that are predictable have been adressed, then you start looking for real work.
Just my thoughts, feel free to disagree...
"Back to school, back to school; to prove to dad I'm not a fool." - Billy Madison (Adam Sandler)
Rex Winn
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Sounds like you have a group of core coders...you guys interested in someone for documentation??
I'm new to the boards here and am a student coder. But I write tech docs and am working on a major help file revamp for my employer. I am also trained in PR.
Regards,
The Boolean Operator aka Boo
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The start has been a little slow. Someone trained in PR is just what we need. I think we need to start a new thread with some fresh ideas.
jhaga
---------------------------------
I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.
Henry David Thoreau, Walden, Conclusion, 1854
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Agreed. 
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
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I agree too...I have to catch up on all the existing threads though.
It also sounds like there should be some form of a live chat or place to hash out ideas publically..would CP mind us using the message boards to do this?
Regards,
The Boolean Operator aka Boo
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Yes, we are allowed to use this message bord for these things. So if you feel for it just start a new thread and lets see if we can activate people a little. We can use the voting system here for decision-making.
jhaga
---------------------------------
I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.
If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.
Henry David Thoreau, Walden, Conclusion, 1854
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Hi
I did one program and if somebody will test it and give me some ideas how to make it better please visit this page and download it
program page link
thanks !
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We're looking for feedback on our new Tools web site. Have a look and let me know if the creative types did a good job, or if it is confusing...thanks.
http://www.webogy.com/webogy/
onwards and upwards...
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basementman wrote:
Have a look and let me know if the creative types did a good job, or if it is confusing...
This is yet another example of what happens when you let art and drama majors play with flash. (here's a similar site[^]) If you paid anyone anything to create this site, I'd demand your money back.
What's with all the pinging bubbles? Are you selling a "Lightning Development Suite" for iMac users and "creative types" or are you targeting real developers?
If you want to impress, you do it all over in ASP.NET and get rid of the bloody PDF's! Your text is non-interactive and heaven forbid if you don't have a mouse!!!
Oh and did I mention the bubbles? It's like they got their inspiration from the "raindrops" after-dark screen saver on their mac's some years ago.
Your BACK || bubble thing is also broken on your Webology Tools> Overview Flash "Page" thingy.
and when moving my mouse over the word "Overview" there, my cursor can't decide if it wants to be a pointer or a hand 
*goes to "corporate solutions" *
AHHHH!!!!! STOP THE "e"(s) They're coming out of the screen AND the mouse cursor! I hope you're products don't leak memory like the flash page thingys leak those "e"(s) all over the place!
Ok, I can't take any more. I'm done.
Final word: Let the "creative types" stick to designing bubble-gum websites for "creative" things, not for technical stuff. It tells me that you had to supply a lot of busy fluff to make up for a lack of substance.
Then again, that's just my opinion, maybe some others will like it...
- Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
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On the ltpb page, don't resize the graphic at the top. It looks pretty funny when stretched to 1600x1200. Clean up your icons and use anti-aliasing for your edges and corners. Still some bugs with the forums.
Not Found
The requested URL /crashoverride025/board.html was not found on this server.
Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apache/1.3.27 Server at members.sitegadgets.com Port 80
404Browser:
You fixed the resizing icons! (finally)
You got rid of the Happy New Year message! (finally)
Get the text off the horizontal line and graphics like on this[^] page.
Again, anti-aliasing is your friend.
- Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
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Lose most of the flash -- way too slow -- it reflects poorly on you.... If it was slick and fast, I'd consider hiring you.
Frankly, all it shows right now is bad design and poor UI.
I hate to wait when I am working.
I kept looking for a link that would let me see it without flash.
[was that too harsh?]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br />
Peter Weyzen<br />
Staff Engineer<br />
Santa Cruz Networks
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