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Apologies for the shouting but this is important.
When answering a question please:
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Insults, slap-downs and sarcasm aren't welcome. Let's work to help developers, not make them feel stupid.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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For those new to message boards please try to follow a few simple rules when posting your question.- Choose the correct forum for your message. Posting a VB.NET question in the C++ forum will end in tears.
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cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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It's slower than any other current intel processors because it was designed for low power and low cost. A mobile atom has a 5W TDP, vs 35 for a normal laptop chip (25 or 10W for the more expensive low power models). The desktop chip runs at 10W vs 35 for a celeron or 65+ for a normal desktop CPU.
It's fast enough to surf the web; but don't plan on gaming or doing video encoding type work on it.
3x12=36
2x12=24
1x12=12
0x12=18
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I have been working on an electronics project, and I want to post it somewhere in a format similar to the articles here at Code Project. The project essentially shows how to design memory circuits for the Motorola 6800 series of CPU (6809, 6502, etc.)
My work used a Heathkit ET-3400, which is a rudimentary computer that exposes its key circuits on a breadboard. This thing is almost 30 years old, but it still fairly widespread on e-Bay, at colleges, etc. I got mine off e-Bay for about $70 quite recently.
My educational background is in Computer Science, and in writing the article I would assume that same educational background in my readers. I also have some software-related articles involving the 6800 and the ET-3400 which I could post as a sequel. So, I initially considered posting this memory project here.
However, in searching article categories, I get the sense that Code Project articles as a whole reside at a very high level of abstraction. Even in the "Systems" categories, I don't find much machine language, assembly language, or even C.
This high-level focus would, I think, make my article seem out-of-place here. So, does anyone know of a similar site for computer / electronics engineering?
Also, I was a bit surprised at the results of my article searching. This is a "code" site, to be sure, but must that mean user-mode, auto-garbage-collected software only? Is there not a "code" a site where one might see analogous articles for C and assembly language? If not, why isn't anyone at all interested in doing this sort of thing on a not-for-profit basis?
It seems that there is a profusion of high-level application software being coded in the public domain, and I feel that the worlds of system programming and computer engineering ought to have something similar.
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Hi,
I don't know of any electronics or low-level software site, similar to CodeProject. I guess nobody would mind you publishing such articles around here, however the audience probably would be very limited.
I have been using 6800, 6502, and many more, myself; one of my first achievements was upgrading a Motorola 6800 demo board to a 6809 (it had 256 bytes of RAM, not MB or GB!); I also implemented a simple Basic interpreter for another 6809 board (with a whopping 64KB), and much more. All of this is indeed 30 years ago, I wasn't aware those chips still are of interest to anyone. I have since developed a fully automated model railroad track (with 2 Macs, several Microchips, and C; I should port it to PC and .NET as those Macs are getting really old by now); I also have developed dozens of microprocessor cross-assemblers and simulators, some in Fortran, a lot in C, and the latest ones in C#. So I probably would be reading (and commenting on) the articles you might write, if and when I see them.
Cheers.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
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I may still post my project here. It does eventually lead to a compiler and an associated app framework. The language is a purely functional, applicative-order language like Scheme, and the framework supports half- and single-precision real-number data types. Most of this - including the master copy of the framework- is written in C. For the framework, this is "if-then-goto" type C which is designed to be hand-assembled onto any platform and emitted by the compilers. Parts of this have been ported to the ET-3400, Microchip PICKits, and the Tandy Color Computer II.
Also: Do you mean that you used Microchip "PIC" chips in your railroad project? Those have been another big area-of-interest for me. It is very easy and cheap to program a PIC chip these days. And I was surprised at how well my language and library worked with the PIC (which is not considered very compiler-friendly). For example, for the 16-series PIC, the stack is limited to seven return addresses. But in a compiler with tail recursion optimization, it is possible to calculate things like 33 factorial, which conceptually have well more than 7 nested function calls. I like this!
Also, if anyone thinks that all of this is a colossal waste of time, then please let me know. I did not realize that people were doing basically the same thing 30+ years ago. Maybe that should be a wake-up call...?
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Yes, I designed a network with some five nodes, each node has a PIC 16F84 (it was one of the first flash devices, has 1K instructions, no serial port) and controls 32 digital power outputs (points and signals) and 32 digital inputs (hall sensors). They are networked with a simplified CAN protocol, and two of them use RS232C to interface to the Macs. It was all programmed in assembly, without using interrupts (cannot afford to loose that latency time!), with a cooperative reschedule every 64 cycles.
Member 3680785 wrote: a colossal waste of time
that is for you to decide; is it an interesting pass time? (yes) is it economically or otherwise justified? (no) If you plan on writing some articles anyhow, then you could easily publish them here (or here and elsewhere). Even if you have your own web site, CP still is a good place as it gets thoroughly scanned by Google's and other bots.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
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Hi,
Member 3680785 wrote: I have been working on an electronics project, and I want to post it somewhere in a format similar to the articles here at Code Project.
If you are looking for other engineers working with the 8-bit microcontroller architecture the I would recommend the Microchip forums[^]. I recently completed an underwater ROV project related to acoustic tracking/positioning. Some of the members at that forum are extremely helpful... especially for people like me lacking an electronic background.
Member 3680785 wrote: I also have some software-related articles involving the 6800 and the ET-3400 which I could post as a sequel. So, I initially considered posting this memory project here.
I would be very interested in having a look at your project. The Motorola 680x0 assembly instructions are much simpler than Intel x86. Its a great starting point for students and/or hobbyists interested in assembly. It is my opinion that CS students should be required to learn 8-bit assembly first.
Member 3680785 wrote: It seems that there is a profusion of high-level application software being coded in the public domain, and I feel that the worlds of system programming and computer engineering ought to have something similar.
I agree. We went to the moon with the 16-bit Apollo Guidance Computer[^] at 2 Mhz. Soon we will need a terahertz processor just to boot into our BloatOS™ and open a word processor.
Welcome to codeproject,
-David Delaune
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Agreed about the Microchip forums... those guys are really helpful, and willing to give advice, even to a "noob." That is a big deal for me.
I have been asked why I don't use the "Atmel AVR" chip, which does many of the same things as the PICs, but supposedly with a more modern, less awkward architecture. A big part of the reason I avoid Atmel is that I've been really turned off by the attitude that their proponents seem to have... it's almost a religious anti-PIC zeal. Using a PIC, on the other hand, there are a wealth of application notes, starter kits, etc. available to ease the learning process...
Since there seems to be no big objection, I probably will post my article(s) here. If I post articles for all my PIC, CoCo, and ET-3400 projects, then taken together these would form a kind of "Computer Engineering for Programmers" course.
What I would really like to see eventually is an open-source, grass-roots effort to build a clean sheet alternative to Wintel, and the Internet. There's too much rotten wood in the current system. The Intel instruction set and Unicode are the two examples that pop to mind. When do we ever get a real "version 2.0?" Never??
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Mekong River wrote: which black/white and color laser printer that is good for doing business?
This depends entirely on your business needs, and there are far too many to choose from to give a definitive answer. The best place to look is some of the product and price comparison web sites to find the product that offers the best options for you.
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Hi, is it true that the second hand printer consume more eletricity power than the new printer (the same printer model)?
Thank,
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It's impossible to tell, the consumption of electricity is based on the usage rather than the age of the device, although worn mechanical interfaces might have an effect.
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No, that's not true, at least not to any significant extent. In comparing new and used printers, I would consider such things as lifespan, likelihood of failure, maintenance cost, etc. But the difference in power consumption will be negligible.
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I've been looking for a way to do this, but all I can find are ways to do this using the driver install wizard that pops up when you attach a PnP-device.
My problem is this: I have drivers for a USB device that I want to install silently. When the user attaches the device, it should just work. I am working with Windows Embedded Standard, which is an XP derivative.
Just right clicking the INF-file in an explorer window and selecting the "Install" verb just doesn't do it.
This shouldn't be hard to accomplish at all. I mean, USB mice and keyboards are installed on the fly, because Windows has been prepped with drivers for them. What's the silver bullet? 
--
Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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I have solved it. I think. I'm working remotely into a virtual machine image at work. Unfortunately, as I'm not there, I can't really connect the USB-cable. 
Anyway, I found the solution in a book I have: Programming the Microsoft Windows Driver Model by Walter Oney (Microsoft Press). Distributed with it, there's a tool called FastInst, that installs the driver and the corresponding device node given a INF-file and all dependent files (drivers, CAT files, etc). I cannot publish the code here for legal reasons - I don't want to be sued for copyright infringements...
The chapter that references the topic of installing drivers, mentions that you can find the equivalent code in the DDK sample DEVCON. I can't publish that either, because the DDK isn't freely available anymore. I think there are old versions out there, that are freely available. YMMV.
Anyway, I verified that the FastInst utility installed the drivers in the correct place (C:\Windows\system32\drivers), the INF files in C:\Windows\INF (as oemXXX.inf as predicted by the book and several other web sites), corresponding registry entries (services, and configurations), as well as the signatures in C:\Windows\System32\CatRoot\{F750E6C3-38EE-11D1-85E5-00C04FC295EE}.
I'll update this tomorrow morning if it worked out or not.
The Windows functions needed to perform the installation are (I think I can publish this without infringing on any copyrights):
* UpdateDriverForPlugAndPlayDevices()
* SetupDiCallClassInstaller()
* SetupDiCreateDeviceInfo()
* SetupDiSetDeviceRegistryProperty()
* SetupDiCreateDeviceInfoList()
* SetupDiDestroyDeviceInfoList()
* SetupOpenInfFile()
* SetupFindFirstLine()
* SetupFindNextLine()
* SetupGetFieldCount()
* SetupGetStringField()
* SetupDiGetINFClass()
* SetupDiClassGuidsFromName()
That ought to be food for google. This little utility by Walter Oney has probably been written many times by others.
--
Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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I mentioned earlier that I had found a tool (FastInst) that solves it all for me. That was true, in a sense. That tool is better used for updating existing drivers than it is installing new ones. If you run it for the first time, it will add a bogus device ID that will just sit in your device manager, never used. It kind of forced its way into the device tree, as if it missed something in the .inf-file, creating unusable devices. However, if I plugged in the real USB-device, a new node was created and matched to the driver. So it was a win, but it came with an ugly duckling.
What I really wanted was the installation of the driver, nothing more. It turns out that there's a magic function in the system called SetupCopyOEMInf(). I have seen it a couple of times, but it never caught my attention for some reason. It will copy the INF files, signatures, and whatever the INF-file wants, to your system and have the PnP-manager see it when the PnP-device is attached. It worked beautifully.
SetupCopyOEMInf(
"C:\Path\To\File.inf",
"C:\Path\To\DriverMedia",
SPOST_PATH,
0,
NULL,
0,
NULL,
NULL
);
The Path to the driver media is often the same directory as the INF-file itself.
--
Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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The technique I marked as "SOLVED" works only for XP Pro. In XP Pro, the CopyFile-sections of the INF file are executed. This means that the relevant driver files (*.sys) are copied to C:\Windows\system32\drivers. In Windows Embedded Standard, the CopyFile-sections are not executed - only INF and CAT files are installed. This means that the files have to be copied manually.
Why WES works this way, I am not sure. It could be that some crucial component has not been included in the image. I did not create the image, so I really have no idea.
So, for WES you have to either copy the files manually during a DUA update, or you can use Walter Oney's FASTINST if you have access to that.
For those of you who need to do this on Vista and later operating systems, there's a function called DiInstallDriver() that seems to solve pretty much everything for you. You just need the driver media (*.sys et al) and the INF/CAT files. I can't grasp why this function wasn't added eons ago...
--
Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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Hi, I have an old laptop dell latitude c600. It has a problem with its keyboard so I replace it witht he new one from dell company. The problem is the key C, and N could not type. After relate around 6 month, the new keyboard has a problem again. So I decide to purchase an external USB keyboard to use with this laptop because it is cheaper.
But using around 6 month again, the external keyboard also got a problem with the key C and N again (I could not type it). Why? Is it the problem with the keyboard or the laptop? I tough it was the problem with the laptop. So I try to used this external keyboard with the other computer but the problem is still the same. They key C and N is having a problem. I don't know why the problem just had with the laptop now its come to the external keyboard.
Does anyone know what is the cause of the problem and how to solve that problem?
Thank in advance!!!
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Indivara wrote: Strange
Yes, it also strange to me too.
Indivara wrote: Are you using the C and N keys aggressively?
No, I use this keyboard very gentle. Actually, I also have another destkop computer to use. So it is very less chance for me to make someting wrong with the keyboard. I use it as normal and really love my computer.
Do you have any more idea about this problem?
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Curioser and curioser...
Just listing the posssibilities -
* Virus messing with the hardware (has happened in the past) - but that would mean other keyboards on the second computer should be affected too
* Dirt in keyboard - but this couldn't possibly happen to the same keys on three keyboards
* Controller error on laptop - but the external keyboard shows the same symptoms on another computer
* Electrical fault on laptop burning out same keys on external keyboard - is this possible? No idea...
* Practical joke?
Trying another keyboard is the only thing I can think of now.
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