

I was in my late 20s when I started on my bachelors, scared as could be because my last two years of HS were abysmal. When I got to Business Calc, second quarter, I really struggled. There were three section tests then a cumulative final right after the 3rd section.
It was all cookbook stuff, as far as the way it was taught: Do this, do that, and out comes the answer.
On the first section test I got something like a 76, so I studied even harder for the second. Of course my score on that was even worse.
So I went to see a TA. I told him my woes. He asked which course I was taking.
He said "Do this, do that, and out comes the answer."
I said, "I know that. That's what I do but my tests suck. Why does doing this and that give me the answer?"
Then he went on to explain it in terms of speed and exceleration. Heck! It was back to high school physics from there, where we spent most of the year starting from mass, distance, time to things like speed (d * t) and acceleration (d * t * t) and it all made sense.
Third section test was something like a 98%, and the final was over 100% because I also aced the extra credit. Ended up with an 89.5% average for the quarter.
Ninety percent was an A, so I went to the professor to ask for the bump. No could do, he said. The numbers are the numbers. That I had mastered the material meant nothing to him.
Well, I took Bus Calc 2 from another professor and got an A. I remember he was Lebanese and spoke French, too. My first quarter I had an A in PreCalc taught by a Spanishspeaking grad student.
So, the biggest lesson I learned from Bus Calc 1 was "Don't take math classes from people who speak English as their first language."
cat fud heer





Spot On! Do not limit everyone.





Maybe CompSci is a Math major at your school, but that certainly isn't universal. At my school it's under the College Of Engineering And Computer Science, which is in a separate building on nearly the opposite side of the campus from the College Of Natural Sciences And Mathematics.
Stopping the math requirements for CS at calculus and statistics is insane, though. Surely they at least include discrete/finite math? The basics of graph theory and group theory are pretty broadly useful, and you really can't do modern graphics without some understanding of matrices and quaternions.





Yep...different schools do break things out differently.
Way back when I was an undergraduate there were three computingcentric majors. Computer Engineering was much more hardware oriented than the others. It was part of the College of Engineering. Computer Science was in the Math Department of the College of Arts & Sciences. It's focus was operating systemlevel and communications software plus researchsupporting computing. An Information Systems major, mainly focused on applications, was offered by the College of Business.
cat fud heer





I'm currently doing a bachelor IT at the Open University. I've done a good part of the first year and yes, I needed math.
There's discrete math A and B in the first year. Also communication technology which deals with subjects (like waves and Fourier analysis) that require math. There's also a course on computer systems and I suspect it will be more math, but don't know yet as I haven't followed the course.
In my second and third year I'll start with continuous math. After that I'll do capita selecta math, algorithms and logic (three seperate courses). Other courses that I'm probably going to need math for are security and artificial intelligence. I needed at least some understanding of math terminology and syntax for the course functional programming.
So yeah, I need that math... For my university.
In the real world I've only used it to impress and belittle my boss and coworkers. Totally worth it
But really, I hate it and whenever I get stuck it's because of math. I even thought about quitting because of math, but then I realized I'm not a quitter and I sat in a corner and cried and cried and then I passed that math exam... At least after all those math courses I can recognize the pattern of wanting to quit, cry and deal with it.
My blog[ ^]
public class SanderRossel : Lazy<Person>
{
public void DoWork()
{
throw new NotSupportedException();
}
}





What do you consider an enormous amount of Math?
I had to take first year calculus, which you needed to know to do most of the other science/engineering physics. If you didn't have a firm grasp of math to that level, you would struggle.
We also had to take a second year of calculus. This was primarily focused on engineering related problems.
And probability.
All of the other math classes were some form of abstract or discrete mathematics.
I believe we only needed to add 23 more math classes and we could earn a minor in math along with our Bachelor of Science.
So it sounds like a lot of math, but most of it you need to be prepared to take some of the other classes. Then if you consider the ultimate purpose of higher education is to create prepared minds, then the amount of raw math seemed appropriate.

Yes it has been useful, however, my jobs have not always required as much math as I would like. But even if I have forgotten how to practice most of the formula's, I can hold intelligent with other engineers that are not CS majors on a project that contains Electrical, Mechanical, and Chemical Engineers.
My education prepared me.





Aye, I totally quote that. I find myself working on fast production lines with mechanical and electrical issues to be accounted for. I also help on the CAD drawings and electrical planning of the new models of machine we sell. And our ONLY need is identifying threats in food and medications by means of XRay  there enter Physics and Chemistry, in fact my boss is a Chemical Engineer.
I worked also in robotics  physics all the way down there, from Computer Vision to movement.
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Weapons extension: ma k++ F+2 X





Yep, just because you don't use it directly, doesn't mean you don't need it.
It's similar to sorting algorithms and other basic data structures. I haven't had to code one of those in years, because there are plenty of fantastic libraries that already work and allow me to focus on my job. But it's still helpful to know how to create them if I had to.





It is a requirement for the "science" part of the degree, I believe.





I'm self taught, so I didn't study math much in the beginning, I did a bit down the road.
Jeremy Falcon





As an engineer, I learned far more mathematics, and I've found a use for most of it. Considering that one of the most important functions of a computer is to crunch numbers and perform calculations that would be inefficient to do manually, this emphasis on mathematics is entirely appropriate.
Will Rogers never met me.





Math, I can see as being useful for a computer science degree. However, what would you make of chemistry?
[rant]
I didn't take any chemistry class in high school. When I applied to university, I was accepted, but was warned I had to take a chemistry class to catch up.
The class was scheduled at the same time as one of my math courses. I brought up my scheduling conflict issue to the teachers from the respective classes, who in turn told me to talk to the university administration; admin told me to take it up with my teachers.
That's when, as a kid, I finally realized that higher education is actually run like any forprofit business. They'll accept anyone and be glad to take your money, even knowing you can't possibly be at two lectures that are taking place at the same time; as long as you pay up, they're happy to watch you drop out. Realizing that, I told them to go f*ck themselves for wasting a year of my life and thousands of dollars, went to college for 3 years instead, and aced it.
I'm now into my 40s, and still haven't to this day figured out which part of any of the jobs I've had since would've benefited from me knowing anything about chemistry.
[/rant]
(yeah, after this much time, I'm still kinda bitter about it)





I went to a few different schools. All of them required a physical science for CS. Chemistry was an option for that requirement, but you could also take physics, astronomy, geology, etc. Amusingly, most of the kids on the games track in CS (officially called Graphics & Multimedia) took geology for their physical science requirement, for which they were frequently mocked by the teacher who taught all the games courses.





RASPeter wrote: All of them required a physical science for CS. Chemistry was an option for that requirement, but you could also take physics, astronomy, geology, etc
In highschool, I had science classes (grades 9 and 10), biology (grades 9 and 10), and physics (grades 11 through 13), and, if I recall correctly, at least 2 math courses per semester (at advanced levels) from grades 9 through 13.
The university computer science program still wanted me to take chemistry.





I had biology and chemistry in high school, but the reality is that high school courses aren't equivalent to college courses (not even the AP courses which can give college credit).
I started out as an electrical engineering major, which quite reasonably does require chemistry (as does computer engineering). If I'm honest, part of my decision to switch to computer science was that I wouldn't have to take chemistry, so I totally understand your frustration. I don't mind the subject itself, but all the chemistry teachers I've met have been arrogant jerks.





RASPeter wrote: I had biology and chemistry in high school, but the reality is that high school courses aren't equivalent to college courses
Right. But my point is, the computer science course offered by the university didn't include any chemistry class. I only had to take a chemistry class (which is outside their computer science curriculum) because I hadn't taken any while in high school.
20+ years later, I still think it's pretty lame.





I did sum maths  in addition to the computer stuff. It divided the class but i'm positive it was integral to the course. Multiple students failed, and that's what differentiated them.
PooperPig  Coming Soon






I did Electrical Engineering at Uni, the problem was the Engineering Dept taught maths to the Engineering students all was good the Maths lot take over as Engineer are not competent to teach maths, all but 5 people had to resit the maths. As others have said the Comp Sci programs tend to be in the maths faculty and so the math people seem to think you maths & more maths to pass. I have really only had to solve quadratic & simultaneous equations in anger (bit of cosine when playing woth RF waves...) no real need for half the stuff they rave about!





Nothing specific to CS. All branches of Engineering  Mechanical, Civil, Aero, Electrical, Chemical, Instrumentation, etc. have significant amount of math at the University level. Being a Mechanical Engineer, my math focus was more on differential equations, whereas MIT[^] gives an entirely different focus for CS.
modified 11Dec14 23:00pm.





During my CS course I learned mathematics for 5 semesters and loved it....then again it is a heredity thing i guess as my father is a mathematics teacher...
Zen and the art of software maintenance : rm rf *
Maths is like love : a simple idea but it can get complicated.





I think the Science part of CS is a clue. Much of what we know as CS has it's roots in branches of science very close to mathematics and seriously predates most modern computers. For a less maths centric approach, I would suggest a related field of study, not CS. You can't water down CS by going easy on the maths, but you can avoid too much maths by choosing a less academic and theoretical field of study.
No object is so beautiful that, under certain conditions, it will not look ugly.  Oscar Wilde





Computer science is mostly about discrete mathematics, and the rest is about continuous mathematics.
So without maths there wouldn't really be anything to learn.





Take into consideration that the persons responsible for developing the cirriculum are the same ones who may have been involved in the initial development of computer systems. When I started in the industry, the Computer Science degree courses didn't exist. In order to approach a computer system, you hade to have a degree in engineering (which explains the need for hard sciences and mathematics).
By comparison, low level training for electricians include courses in logic circuits and logic reduction/substitution.





My bachelor's degree program (class of 1984, computer engineering, Wright State University, go Raiders!) included 28 credit hours of math out of a 205 hour curriculum. This was 20 hours of calculus, 3 hours of matrix algebra, and a 5 hour course in differential equations. I've used the matrix algebra once, over a three month period, about 28 years ago. The part of my brain that stored that math education has been reformatted and now stores lines from old movies.
The useful part of my math education was the vast amount of practice in learning how to identify, reason about, and solve problems. Everything we do is one of the infamous "word problems" that everyone in math classes despise.
Software Zen: delete this;





Depending on the field you choose, I'm working in robotics and industrial automation and even mostly of the time maths are not needed, sometimes you can find really hard things to solve...





There's lots of paths to success out there.
Math may not be necessary to be successful in the CS field but actually neither is formal education in CS (many readers cringing). I have a degree in math and write programs for a living (C# and Fortran) to perform mathematically based functions. It depends on what the focus of your programming is. In some areas it would be vital.
Mostly I liken it to calisthenics for the mind. Give me 2 programmers with equal CS background and I would take the one that has a stronger math aptitude. But, I am clearly biased.





Mathematics is the language of science and logic. Understanding it can make your understanding of the language of programming much easier.
As for my own studies, since I hold a bachelor's degree in Mathematical Sciences and a master's degree in Statistics, I would say definitely I learned a lot of math in my studies and it was very instrumental in my learning of programming in general. Granted, my first programming gig was primarily because I was a statistician first and programmer second (I worked for a software house that produced mathematical and statistical libraries).
Christopher Reed
"The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient."





The only math you need to know is that arrays start at 0.
Except when they start at 1.





Some of it is the process taught in mathematics (or any branch of science, I suppose): how to properly analyze a problem, hypothesize, test, and rework your hypothesis if the tests don't meet expectations.
So, not so much the actual mathematics, for most developers, but that process is important. It does seem as if the developers I've come across (nearing 30 years now) with a scientific background tend to create stronger solutions than those who came out of the CIStype side from the business college.
On the other hand, sometimes the scientificallyminded people will create architectural 'masterpieces' where a simple solution would suffice. I suppose there's room for both in the world, depending on the needs of your employer/client.





They need to teach problem solving. The problem with most ways of teaching problem solving is grading the solution. The solution to that problem is use mathematics, it's easy to grade and it's easy to come up with problems to solve. I've used mathematics when the problem domain requires it, otherwise not so much. Not that I had too but I took, and passed, 2 years of calculus and 1 year of calculus based physics. The most useful courses I took, outside of CS, were the anthropology courses.





All those math gives the basis to understand the "cool" things.
I think for people that asks "why" more than "how to" cook recipes, those math is a must and very welcome.





I have studied both mathematics and computing to degree level and beyond, though I am more of a mathematician who programs as a hobby. To be honest you don't have to be a great mathematician to be a good programmer. What 'mathematics' most programmers use is basic logic and numeracy ('basic' as in 'foundational' though not necessarily easy, i.e. taught in the first year of an undergraduate maths degree or even highschool). Mathematics largely consists of other things, however, such as differential equations, many of which are derived and solved intuitively, rather than according to some rigorous logic. The best mathematicians also have good intuition and will not attempt some slow logical chain of arguments to solve a problem which can be solved by instinct (and may be insolvable by application of rigorous logic). For example, Schrodinger's wave equation can not be entirely derived mathematically or logically, it is partially an intuitive 'guess' which works. Computing requires a more rigid logical framework than mathematics. Furthermore, the only areas I have found that really make use of some of my more advanced mathematics are 3D graphics and mathematical applications that solve mathematical problems. Nevertheless, mathematics is useful  it helps with understanding algorithm optimisation, manipulation of 3D vectors and matrices (for graphical apps), binary and basic manipulation of algebraic equations and numeracy. However, there are good mathematicians who are bad at programming and good programmers who are bad at mathematics. It really depends on one's own particular niche.





Things like logic and discrete math apply directly to CS. But calculus not so much, unless you're doing certain types of programming. I had to take calculus and I've never, ever used it, I've used some trig but no calculus. These days I couldn't integrate something with a gun to my head.
CS is historically a branch of mathematics, so I think that's where the prereqs come from. But unlike, say, physics or engineering, you don't really use calculus in CS. I'm not opposed to requiring CS majors to take math, but it should be math that is relevant to CS, specifically logic. Honestly, the symbolic logic classes I took in the philosophy department were more relevant to CS than the math classes.





I'm glad I had it. It sharpens the mind and although I may have not directly applied the higher level of mathematics. Higher level of mathematics helped me memorize the lower level ones, which I directly used in several projects.
I think it's very important to have it, because mathematics is not as easy to learn on demand, through books and you should be prepared if the need comes by.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems  Homer Simpson

Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction  Francis Picabia





At the college I went to, we had tons of math involved in CS. So much so, that all I had to take was 2 extra math classes outside of the CS curriculum and I had minor in Math (which is what I did since, hell, it was only 2 extra classes!)





Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote: I'm aware that, good logical thought is a musthave for CS, and that good mathematics means the same
Presuming of course that if you mean Computer Science for CS then one might suppose that one should have a fairly complete understanding of mathematics since it forms the basis for probably all of science.
Conversely if however is talking about a career in programming then there are far more useful skills. Such as being able to negotiate. Or for that matter just being able to have a semilucid conversation with normal business people.
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote: Did you learned that much mathematics as part of your studies?
Yes.
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote: Was it really helpful?
Not really. Used it exactly once. It was helpful at the time and to be fair other solutions at the time did not seem likely. But it was many years ago and it would take me a great deal more effort now to do the same trick. And the problem I needed to solve then can't exist now so it wouldn't be needed.





For calculating screen positions and array indices.





why do recruiters asking consistent scores in academic during the interview
Born To Learn





Because their grasp of English is poor?
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...





<blockquote class="quote"><div class="op">King Fisher wrote:</div>consistent scores in academic</blockquote>
Consistent in what way ? during your academic time ? or across the different courses (strong in some fields, weak in others)?
Me think it is one way to judge a candidate fresh from university/college without relevant (or extensive) work experience.
I'd rather be phishing!





My scores were consistently low
My blog[ ^]
public class SanderRossel : Lazy<Person>
{
public void DoWork()
{
throw new NotSupportedException();
}
}





I have never been asked about my academic scores during an interview. Interesting.





Me neither!
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.





I've been phoned by the company even with a average 95/110 and 1 year late bachelor in Computer Engineering. They asked me to solve a 30 problems in 40 minutes, ranging from Math to signal manipulation and Electronics, plus C and VB6 programming (the things I actually do 80% of my time).
But many employers use the grade and I can understand: you can sort people automatically. When you have tohusands of requesters you cannot simply interview each and every one of them and give them a numerical grade (a choice criterion) to decide. You need to peel off first in order to reduce the the order of magnitude of the requesters to the tens.
One who passed with high marks allegedly shows a resultoriented mindset and a certain degree of self discipline, two prized qualities. Of course it is a blind criterion, for example a working student in a tough university may have harder times, less time to study and lower grades despite being better than the "eternal students", the ones who really can study by heart even Engineering exams (trust me, they exist and they are growing. You know them  "how can i do thad give me codes plzzzz").
Geek code v 3.12
GCS d s/++ a C++++ U+++ P L E W++ N++ o+ K w+++ O? M V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h r++>+++ y+++*
Weapons extension: ma k++ F+2 X





Because past consistency is an indicator of future consistency; rather the one indicator (among several) which can be quickly checked during the interview process.





So they can figure out how expensive the drugs are that they will give you in order to keep you a docile slave who does not rock the boat.
«OOP to me means only messaging, local retention and protection and hiding of stateprocess, and extreme latebinding of all things. » Alan Kay's clarification on what he meant by the term "Object" in "ObjectOriented Programming."






Chris, only two weeks for Christmas. So avoid this[^](3rd message[message title "Maunder!"], unfortunately old messages not loading).
There was no such words like elephant during that time.




