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Sorry for late response. I was not at my computer today.
Mushq wrote: Best of luck for your future projects.
Thanks. I am trying to develop and sell a product in my country. If I don't succeed, I start testing freelance. As I read somewhere, the god, defined a food for us already but didn't put it in our home, it's our job to find where he put it.
Thank you for the link.
// "Life is very short and is very fragile also." Yanni
while (I'm_alive)
{
cout<<"I love programming.";
}
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Hamed Mosavi wrote: Is it not a better decision to hire expensive talents and use them for finding and doing new things, and use cheap oversea programmers to do repetitive tasks?
I was talking to someone yesterday that was thinking along those lines.
Hamed Mosavi wrote: What do you think about offshoring?
I recognize that it's a practice that is here to stay, but I don't like it.
Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote: but I don't like it.
Why?
You have to spend a lot for a new programmer in a company to do the same task every day, while there are plenty of them overseas that can do almost similar job hundreds of times cheaper.
Is it a bad idea to ask a talent employee to manage a programming team in another country?
I think sooner or later people of the world understand that it's time to live together in the world, not within the boundary of our countries, city, etc.
// "Life is very short and is very fragile also." Yanni
while (I'm_alive)
{
cout<<"I love programming.";
}
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Hamed Mosavi wrote: I think sooner or later people of the world understand that it's time to live together in the world, not within the boundary of our countries, city, etc.
I would agree if economies, standards of living, and human rights around the world were more on par with each other, if standards of living were more equal. For example, I frankly do not like that Americans are sending billions of dollars to China every month in form of purchases of goods. I'm also (right or wrong) somewhat of a protectionist. The world isn't ready for a global economy, and calling what we currently have a global economy is a joke, given the inequalities in labor costs, human rights, etc.
Marc
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Well, I'm not an economic professional, but if US economists decided to send that huge amount of dollars to china, I bet they have good reasons, and they think they earn more, probably.
You are absolutely right about differences between human rights, economics and standards of living, and so the global economy days might not come soon, but it should start from somewhere, someday. Shouldn't it?
I don't live in US nor in china, I even don't understand economics truly, but if I imagine a country as a home family, US with a lot of money is like a rich family that certainly is not going to produce all it needs, specially when others offer less prices. However economy should not be this easy.
P.S. Thanks Marc for using easy words in this conversation. I can understand them 100% now and I understand your effort.
// "Life is very short and is very fragile also." Yanni
while (I'm_alive)
{
cout<<"I love programming.";
}
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Hamed Mosavi wrote: I bet they have good reasons, and they think they earn more, probably.
True, but I feel that the US economy is driven by short term gain and profit without concern for long term planning (which is more profitable in the long term) nor a more holistic understanding of global geopolitical, cultural, and economic impact.
Hamed Mosavi wrote: Thanks Marc for using easy words in this conversation.
I was pressed for time when I made the first post, and I felt, well, let's see who wants to engage in a more in depth conversation.
Marc
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From the link: I have been personally reporting quite a few of the articles to be vehemently plagairizing.
So, if you find them not reacting even after you reporting plagiarism, then why are you associated with them as one of the "Master minds behind dotnetspider"? (Read at dotnetspider)
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero
.·´¯`·->ßRÅhmmÃ<-·´¯`·.
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brahmma wrote: Master minds behind dotnetspider
I don't think I have been doing any architecture help for Dotnetspider other than helping newbies in their basic questions in .NET. You can actually check out my profile which shows my contribution:
http://www.dotnetspider.com/profiles/ViewProfile.aspx?UserId=deepaknet[^]
Some one else was suspecting me as involving in an espionage system. Should I be doing a spy work, I don't think I should be maintaining the same profile across? Wouldn't that be the case?
I don't derive any monetary benefits thereon. In fact, I recieved an email that I can signup for Google AdSense Revenue Sharing too. But I haven't accepted that proposal since for the reason, I use their forums purely on one goal: "Helping out little new fresh graduates just into career into thier programming troubleshooting". I do this on my personal Internet which is just either a weak dialup or my friend who has a Airtel Broadband during late nights.
I think if this trend of plagairism is too much on Spider, I should reconsider my voluntary technical help there, seriously and seriously.
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Vasudevan Deepak Kumar wrote: Some one else was suspecting me as involving in an espionage system
nope!!
Only thing is,as Nish said ,since your name is listed over there and also because you are one of the most active CPian, you could give a correct picture.
The main question was I guess ,whether dotnetspider and buzycode are same or not.
-- modified at 6:30 Friday 31st August, 2007
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AFAIK, I could not see a link to BuzzyCode from Spider site. Since I am also just a very casual, very ordinary, dumb member there.
But they have a very large network of sites. Without delving into a deeper search, just as a FIR (First Information Report), the following are the sites that I could recall as sister sites of Dotnetspider:
1) TonyJohn.com[^]
2) SpiderKerala.com[^]
3) IndianStudyChannel.com[^]
4) SQLSpider.com[^]
They might be having plethora of underground sites as well. Neither I have time nor I have resources to research on all those nor they fall within my realm.
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Vasudevan Deepak Kumar wrote: AFAIK, I could not see a link to BuzzyCode from Spider site.
Both BuzzyCode and DotNetSpider seem to be operated by LogicsLab (you can see that the offshoring/outsourcing links from both sites go there; and both sites use the same Instant chat IDs too).
So there is a very clear connection between the 2 sites. This automatically incriminates Tony John too - since he's the guy with the more visible public profile. But it is possible that a partner of his may be running BuzzyCode without Tony John's approval. In that case it may be in the best interests of Tony John and DotNetSpider to disassociate themselves from LogicsLab.
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I really don't know why people are so much behind 'money-minded'. They just do a good community service website like Dotnetspider but behind the scenes one dirty website (on par pornography  ) like BuzzyCode is being operated.
Regret if I am harsh. But I strongly feel that Plagarism or Credit Theft must be made synonymous to Pornography. The original author really breaks down on seeing his hard-blood-shed article earning credits for someone else ("the thief").
The Country's Law can be muted by these bullies but Nature's law would answer them.
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Hello everyone,
I am Tony John, webmaster of dotnetspider. I came to this thread by following a Google alert about "dotnetspider".
I found lot of discussions are going on about dotnetspider. As the owner and webmaster of dotnetspider, it is my responsibility to clarify certain points here:
- I own dotnetspider.com and several other sites (AspSpider.NET, aspspider.* spiderkerala.com, tamilspider.com, indiastudychannel.com, asianspider.com, yoursmartkerala.com etc are some of them and few others are coming up).
- I use Logic Labs as my offshore development company. They do a great job as an offshore partner. Recently, I have tightly integrated their services in dotnetspider, allowing clients to even directly contact Logic Labs through dotnetspider.
- I have absolutely no relation with the BuzzyCode and I have never seen that site in the past. Today I learnt that it is owned by the same company that do offshore services for me. But unless it affects dotnetspider's reputation or business, I am not going to worry too much about it since it is not directly related to my business relation with Logic Labs.
In one of the threads, Deepak Vasudevan mentioned:
"Since it is an Indian website, I think, I am trying to see if we can approach the Intellectual Property Infringments in India or CyberCrime cell for a redressal."
dotnetspider is registered in USA, not in India. Deepak, let me ask you one thing. You have been working very closely with me for past several months. You have given me valuable suggestions in the past and I have done a lot of changes in dotnetspider based on your feedback. You are even listed in [^] as a core member of spider team. It would have been nice if you had asked me directly before you post something silly about dotnetspider here!
Now let me talk about the copy right violations. I have never copied articles and published. I have not requested anyone to do this for dotnetspider and do not encourage this. But dotnetspider may have published copied articles. And so is CodeProject. It is practically impossible for any website to completely stop this.
While CodeProject is a well established website with several professional employees to identify most of the copied content and remove in a timely fashion, dotnetspider is basically a one man show. dotnetspider targets the freshers and developers in India. We receive around 100,000 page views per day. Most of the traffic come from India. Many of the members are completely unaware of the copyright issues. I try my best to reach most of the articles and inform the author about the copyright violation and mark the article as 'deleted' (Like the "Purgatory" in CodeProject).
Initially I used to permanently delete such articles, but I learnt a good lesson when an author responded to me saying I deleted his original articles while the articles I mentioned as original ones in another site was actually copied from dotnetspider. So, I do not have a definite way to identify which is original and which is copied. Also, I looked into CodeProject and many other sites to find how this is handled. I learnt that the best approach is to "mark them as deleted".
I do mark lot of articles as 'deleted' in dotnetspider everyday. There may be several other articles left out which I could not identify as copied content. I have to accept the criticism on this since it is a failure from my side to respect the IPs of other people. I will be more than happy to delete any copied content in dotnetspider, if anyone point out them.
I have even permanently deleted articles from people who became Microsoft MVPs, on request from them since having articles in their name as 'deleted because of copyright violations' are an insult for them ! But people forget their past when they get great labels.
I have lot of respect for CodeProject. I used to write articles in CodeProject before I started dotnetspider. Even after starting dotnetspider, I have written few in CodeProject just for the purpose of using a link in the footer of my articles. Just like many other new webmasters, I have also done silly things in the past like posting messages in popular forums to get some intial traffic. I do not do them anymore (after all, I work full time for a company in Houston as a software analyst, have 2 children, run around 10 websites myself, run an offshore outsourcing business and following threads like this in the internet !)
And let me give some background about dotnetspider. I used to give FREE .NET training to poor students and freshers in Bangalore on week ends. Eventually, lot of people were interested in it and I could not manage the huge demand for the free training. That gave birth to dotnetspider.com. I do not claim this as the best .NET tutorial website, but I am proud to say that I receive hundreds of emails from students and fresh graduates saying it helped them which serves the purpose of the birth of dotnetspider.
I feel so upset about seeing few threads in CodeProject about my website dotnetspider. I hope I could clarify some of the doubts people had about dotnetspider.
I will be more than happy to answer any other question you have about dotnetspider.
- Tony John
http://www.tonyjohn.com
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Tony M John wrote: You have been working very closely with me for past several months. You have given me valuable suggestions in the past and I have done a lot of changes in dotnetspider based on your feedback.
Tony,
Even now, I haven't openly objected to Dotnetspider. The entire CP concern is about the sister concern group that is plagiarizing and spoiling the name. I admit that I do give a lot of feedbacks and suggestions. The most beautiful thing in DotNetSpider would be its gentle take-the-fresh software graduates by hand. And this is a very delicate process. We should be doubly, triply be careful that they do not have any ill-effects from such bad company like LogicIndia or other black sheep. Regarding the various suggestions, in fact, I feel that the most good things should never be kept at heart and should be shared across for the benefit of everyone. In fact, CPians know me suggesting various features in the Suggestions/Bug Reports of CodeProject as well.
Tony M John wrote: dotnetspider targets the freshers and developers in India.
That is the point. That is the beauty of it. Spider starts bringing in fresh developers into able resilent .NET developers.
Tony M John wrote: But people forget their past when they get great labels.
Absolutely true. I don't want to finger point at somebody. But if you dig through the messages, one of them who has been put into the 'Technical Team' late, has offending articles of significant magnitude.
Tony M John wrote: I used to give FREE .NET training to poor students and freshers in Bangalore on week ends.
I know of this. This is the very humble start of DotNetSpider when you started your career after coming out of SRA, during the BETA 2 of .NET.
Tony M John wrote: I feel so upset about seeing few threads in CodeProject about my website dotnetspider.
There is nothing hurting on DotNetSpider as such. The only thing is that, on a war-footing basis, the changes need to be included so that our back-stabbers from the same offshoring does not cast thier ill-effects on DotNetSpider.
Tony M John wrote:
"Since it is an Indian website, I think, I am trying to see if we can approach the Intellectual Property Infringments in India or CyberCrime cell for a redressal."
The complaints have been given on BuzzyCode and LogicIndia both from Kerala.
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Tony M John wrote: - I have absolutely no relation with the BuzzyCode and I have never seen that site in the past. Today I learnt that it is owned by the same company that do offshore services for me. But unless it affects dotnetspider's reputation or business, I am not going to worry too much about it since it is not directly related to my business relation with Logic Labs.
Hello Tony,
As long as you continue to be associated with a company that has been involving in mass plagiarism, your company will be seen as part of the group too.
In fact a couple of CPians used IM-chat to talk to BuzzyCoode tech support - and the tech support initially introduced himself/herself as DotNetSpider tech-support. So it's clear that the same people are tech-supporting both websites.
Nobody in their right mind will trust a company like Logic Labs - because of what they are doing with Buzzy Code. So by using Logic Labs as your partner in offshore outsourcing, your company and website is losing public trust too and will be seen as part of the fraudsters.
If you were sincere in your comments that you were not aware of buzzycode (which is strange since it's linked to from the Logic Labs web site), then you should immediately detach yourself from that company and also indicate to the public that you were not aware of the illegal activities that Logic Labs has been doing. Until you do that, as far as the public is considered you will be a part of the nexus.
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Nish,
Thanks for your response. Here is my comments:
Nishant Sivakumar wrote: In fact a couple of CPians used IM-chat to talk to BuzzyCoode tech support - and the tech support initially introduced himself/herself as DotNetSpider tech-support. So it's clear that the same people are tech-supporting both websites.
No company is doing tech support for dotnetspider. I am only one who is running it. (I do pay few people occasionally for various contributions)
I spoke to Logic Labs today. They mentioned that when someone contact them through the IM-chat links published in dotnetspider, they introduce as 'offshore division of dotnetspider'. I have asked them to clearly indicate their relation with dotnetspider in future.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote: Nobody in their right mind will trust a company like Logic Labs - because of what they are doing with Buzzy Code.
I have tried few other companies in the past for offshore services. (Even now I use few other companies to handle overflow projects.) Due to the nature of the projects I get, large companies like TCS, Wipro or Infosys are not suitable for me. I need an offshore company who is "cheap" on rates and do a quality job. Logic Labs does that pretty well for me. My past experience says it is not easy to find another company who meets this criteria, without taking the risk of screwing up few projects.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote: If you were sincere in your comments that you were not aware of buzzycode (which is strange since it's linked to from the Logic Labs web site),
May be I have seen that site in the past when I interviewed Logic Labs few years back for my offshore development services. I do not usually visit their websites or enquire about their other business. Offshore services is a business I have completly outsourced. Clients usually contact Logic Labs directly through many of my websites and I trust Logic Labs on their monthly payment reports.
I looked at Logic Lab's website today (I had to google few minutes to find it) and noticed they have given few links in the bottom to some silly sites including BuzzyCode. But I am not sure if I can do anything about it since my relation to them is limited to offshore outsourcing only. I even called them today to ask them about the CP threads, but I did not request them to shutdown that site since I have no business to do that.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote: and also indicate to the public that you were not aware of the illegal activities that Logic Labs has been doing
I will make it publicly known that dotnetspider has no relation with Logic Labs other than outsourcing projects to them. I will review the respective pages in dotnetspider and make it more clear.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote: Until you do that, as far as the public is considered you will be a part of the nexus.
I learnt that today !
Thanks for yout time, Nish.
- Tony
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Thanks for the comments. One clarification though: We make it very easy to report articles and as soon as an article is reported as plagarised we investigate and delete. We do not allow copied articles on CodeProject.com. Purgatory is for poor articles that are given a second chance. Plagarised articles are not given a second chance and are not moved to Purgatory. They are, as I said, deleted.
I understand as well as anyone the difficulty in policing content but it is a site's responsbility to provide a means for the community to do the policing and to respond as soon as possible to resolve issues.
cheers, Chris Maunder CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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Chris,
Thanks for the clarification. I was of the impression that all "rejected" articles are moved to purgatory in CP.
- Tony John
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Even Dotnetspider has a Purgatory equivalent. We have to save Dotnetspider which serves several freshers, beginners and newbies to .NET technology enterprise from bad malicious websites like BuzzyCode.
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Firstly, I did not mean to accuse you of anything... the remark about you being a mole was missing a
You have also explained yourself reasonably well, and I am convinced you are not the culprit of any plagarization.
However...
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar wrote: I think if this trend of plagairism is too much on Spider, I should reconsider my voluntary technical help there
You mentioned in a thread you linked to that you have been pointing out this trend for quite a while... why have you not reconsidered your contribution previously, or reported these people to the relevant authority (web hosts, site owners of plagarized sites etc).
It seems to me you've been turning a "blind eye" to this for quite some time judging by how long these ripoff sites have been operarating.
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OK - just that you were mentioned in that thread a couple of times, of being associated with this lot in some way... for your own sake, it may be as well for you to make your position quite clear.
Fred
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