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Hey, I think it makes sense to write programs in an operating system rather than a web browser, so clearly I'm not a realistic point of reference.
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Is it truly possible to expect someone who's deeply religious to keep that perspective out of their political practice? After I typed that... if I was elected to any office I'd try my hardest to do that very thing so yes I do believe it's possible. You are right to question that the way you have.![Rose | [Rose]](/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
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Christopher Duncan wrote: Wow. I've just participated in conversations on both topics, and the dialog is even polite, respectful and civil.
Now you can raise the bar and ask a VB programming question in the Lounge.
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I think that the recent and massive shift from Bush (whom I loved) to Obama (whom I just really don't understand) has forced us all to set aside to some degree politics and political affiliations and to realize that if we don't start fixing some of our core rights, and protecting them fiercely for *EVERYONE* who lives here then our country will rip apart and die. I think all of us need to realize that right now our country teeters precariously upon the edge of a cliff and only people can fix the problems. We are asking way to much of our elected officials and I'm only just now realizing it. Why did Bush seem to fail and why when it's over will many think Obama did too? It's because we expect them to do all of the fixing while we watch from the side and call "fair play" or "foul ball" from the quagmire of indecision that has become the life of the individual American life.
I hope more American's are beginning to see what I'm starting to see.
i. If I don't fight tooth and nail to make sure your constitutional rights are protected you will not fight tooth and nail to protect mine. If I fight for yours it's selfless if I fight for mine it's selfish. Nobody wins and it's never enough when we pursue our own interests.
ii. I think homosexuals would better understand how to protect the rights of peaceful Christians than even Christians do and I think they should organize and try to do that very thing. I think that Christians should set aside their own interest and tackle the problems that homosexual people face and fight incredibly hard to solve those problems and help them. In doing so both sides would learn the truth about each other. That truth is really they are not nearly as different as they thought.
America would grow and prosper if democrats fought for the republican interests as hard as possible so they could be rewarded by seeing republicans fight tooth and nail for the rights of democrats. Each of them trying to one-up the other in fighting for their opposites rights. That I'm learning is what being American really is.
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Wow - Now that makese sense !
Are you sure you not running for office?
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Interesting. All the arguments I've seen like that tend to go: You're ideas differ from mine.... Wharrgarbl[^]
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That is indeed surprising.
If you really want the conversation to get interesting just add alcohol! 
Mike
"It doesn't matter how big a ranch ya' own, or how many cows ya' brand, the size of your funeral is still gonna depend on the weather." -Harry Truman.
Semper Fi
http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[ ^]
My Site
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You know, the general belief is that America was founded on the principle that there should be no state supported religion. However, the truth of the matter is that a careful read of the founding documents and a quick glance at the way the country is run show that we do indeed have an official, state sponsored religion:
Tolerance.
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Yeah but I don't like Tolerance. Tolerance kind of has become twisted. Tolerance means that you can force your way into my religious view and force me to change it (maybe not but that's how it feels). I want everyone to have the right to assemble non-violently and practice their belief whatever it is. If you don't like what I practice then you can start a group with people who like what you practice. Tolerance has become a means of forcing people to change their beliefs in such a way that yours can supersede theirs. I crave more than tolerance. I crave a society that respects all views and the right to assemble and practice your view.
For example. I deeply struggle with the fact that things like insurance are only given exclusively to husband/wife teams who parent kids. Homosexuality in my opinion is not good for people and I'm okay that I feel that way. But suddenly it's hard for me to say, "Because I'm a husband/wife team. I deserve rights that homosexual teams are denied." even though that makes sense in my mind the core of who I am, the foundations of the country I would die to protect doesn't like that. That's saying that my way is better and I'm fine thinking that my way is better because for me it is. My way is no longer better if in order to get the same rights I have then you have to change "your way". I don't have an answer for that inner struggle. Because for me if you took 10,000 homosexual couples and gave them all of Jamaica to live on in 200 years nobody would be left alive. Yet if you took 10 heterosexual couples and gave them Hawaii in 200 years a large society would be under way. That makes sense to me but I still struggle that somehow I deserve something being denied to other people who don't think the same way I do. I'm really not going to like it if/when the tables turn and the tables will turn.
I feel like "RESPECT" says, "Well... I have benefits and insurance. Now you want them? I cannot see a reason to deny them to you so here you go."
It's been a strange experience for sure. But tolerance has become a warped tool. Respect is still universally understood but it's much harder to practice. I believe tolerance replaced respect because tolerance means something much less tangible and is legally more agile than respect.
Tolerance may rip this country apart but I believe that respect could make it as strong as steel. Am I wrong? Am I really saying what the pure definition of tolerance was meant to be?
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I agree with the insurance thing. Personally i think the standard in the country needs to be established with monogamy in mind instead of the concept of a male\female pairing.
Any two people willing to legally commit to one another should be allowed to, and thus should be allow the rights and benefits afforded to such.
But, perhaps in mandating monogamy I am also offending. I don't know... but I think monogamy can be argued for better than heterosexuality as a basis for civil pairs. If two people of the same sex can form a corporation (a legal entity) then why not a 'marriage'?
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Undeniably true. It really is a valid point.
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Frak monogamy! It's unnatural I tell you! 
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Oh it's natural. It's hard but natural. My wife and I married when we were both 20. I was her first and she was mine. It's natural alright and honestly it's really cool.
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code-frog wrote: I deeply struggle with the fact that things like insurance are only given exclusively to husband/wife teams who parent kids.
I'm probably misunderstanding, but how is that so? What kind of insurance are you thinking of?
Cheers,
Drew.
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I'm referring to the rights that homosexuals have to fight so hard to get. They want their unions to be recognized and even though I disagree with their unions I don't agree that they should be denied any other rights that I can get. I do like what someone else said that they do need to prove they want to stick it out for a long time. Not all marriages work out in fact half don't but they need to at least go through some sort of motion that makes it painful to separate if they do.
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code-frog wrote: So religion was invented by men to save us from utter destruction at the hands of a violent alien race.
Given the quote, and whilst I realize that it is from the book, it seems to interest you. By chance this morning I was reading about The Theory of the Leisure Classes, Thorstein Veblen[^]. This was written in the very early years of the last century (doesn't it seem strange to write something like that) it pretty well sums up the causes of the current credit crisis, passing through religion and its foundations on the way.
Thought you might find it interesting.
Henry Minute
Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain
Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?"
“I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Actually the books is interesting but the underlying challenges it makes against religion and state are what I find fascinating. I was really hoping your link would be readable. Religion can sure help a lot and it can screw up a lot. But I find it's less the fault of religion and more the fault of the people who claim to champion the cause of religion.
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Large parts of it seem to be readable on Google Books[^].
Henry Minute
Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain
Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?"
“I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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I haven't read the books you're referring to, but have you read the Night's Dawn[^] sci-fi trilogy by Peter Hamilton? It deals with the discovery that humans (and any sentient species) are indeed immortal, and various other bits that make for a great read. Doesn't really address the existence of God so much (but the story doesn't rule it out either, just kind of conveniently side steps the whole issue), but it does use a "newer" vocabulary to talk about an age old issue. Anyways, I certainly had a good time reading the books and thinking about it.
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I have no faith and I just admit that I don't (and won't) know. And yet I play Scrabble at work (during lunch) with a guy who is very much Christian. We are still friends we just don't talk about it.
I can respect Christians, heck we feel the same about 99% of the religions that exist, we only disagree about one
The only thing that bugs me about Christianity and Religion in general is that people (not God) claim to know what is going to happen when we die. Nobody knows...
And just because I believe that I don't know, some people say I will suffer the same fate (for eternity no less) than an evil person such as Hitler. That really bugs me...
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
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Wow, good for you on losing weight.
I know how hard it it. One pound is 3500 calories. It takes 5 - 6 hours of strenuous exercise just to loose 1 lb.
I see a lot people who go to the Y that I go to and they walk on the tread mill for 3 hours per week while drinking a Gatorade and they don't loose any weight at all. I want to explain to them how many calories are in a pound and how much work it takes to burn those calories but I just keep my mouth shut.
Anyone who says losing weight is easy is a liar.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
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Check me out. http://www.code-frog.com/milestone.htm[^]
Losing weight is a science and an understanding. It's also a personal journey of understanding all the little steps you took that put you in a position to lose all the weight you are now staring at. Every aspect of your life can be tuned in small increments to achieve a big result. *OR* you can do fewer things in much larger quantities to produce big results that will be harder to maintain over time. Making huge changes requires huge discipline. Making small changes requires small discipline. Fat people want a thin solution in days not years. It's the years that produce the solution it's the days that produce yet more problems.
For me I started just doing some exercise and some diet. Then a little more of each. I knew that if I focused on exercise the diet would fix itself and it has. Now I spend 1 hour every day on an elliptical at 85% of my maximum heart rate (that's my work). Then I go to the climbing gym 3 to 5 times a week with my kids where we climb multi-pitch finger-burning climbs for 2 to 3 hours at a time. We all take turns where-in I belay all 3 and then I climb a route. Then I belay again and then I climb a route. I'm enjoying much more the intense battles of bouldering and really tough holds and grip/foot transitions that can wipe you out if you don't do it right.
I love being thin. It rocks.
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