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If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein
Apple is obviously not perfect but they win a ton of design, quality and customer satisfaction awards. More than any other computer maker or consumer electronics maker I can think of.
Yeah, but I am different. Apple's OSX doesn't cut it, for me. Closed, opaque, nothing for a developer. IMO.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Every Apple product I've owned has been rock solid.
So is my desktop running Kubuntu 11.10, which I've built from parts. It's also a powerhouse (eight physical cores, 16 GB RAM), way more powerful than whatever Apple I could've bought for the same money, and the desktop eye candy is richer than what OSX provides.
Or tried to get your Mac to interoperate reliably with a non-Apple Wi-Fi router.
Or ever wanted to migrate your music library to some other device.
Or relied on Apple time machine to make reliable back ups.
I don't hate Apple, I own two iPhone's and a Macbook pro, I also own one Windows laptop an two Windows desktops. I've actually had less trouble with my Windows systems then I have had with my Apple stuff.
The myth that Apple products are "rock solid" is just that -- a myth.
The early Mac's were horrible -- if you didn't reboot every couple of hours they would hang. Back then you could go a whole day before you needed to reboot your windows machine. [We've come a long way -- I never feel compelled to reboot either anymore.]
My current Macbook Pro kept dropping it's WiFi connection with two different routers (no other device had a problem) and nothing would fix it until I bought the bullet and purchased an Apple router. No idea what the problem was, but it was cheaper just to pay the money then to keep trying to debug it.
iTunes does some funny things with multiple accounts and/or locations. I've found it easier to create my music collection using non-Apple software and import the files into iTunes rather than trying to go the other way around (probably works fine now, but I haven't bothered to try).
The one time I tried to restore a file from Time Machine it was unable to recover the supposedly backed up file. I couldn't tell what went wrong. I've since adopted a second backup scheme for my critical files -- and it works fine.
Your experience was your experience, mine was mine -- no disagreement.
In fact, since Apple has more control over the hardware and software, I'd expect the experience ought to be rock-solid.
Maybe it's just the fact that I expect Apple to be rock solid, and never expect a pc to work the first time without some effort.
It's always a big disappointment for me when an Apple system doesn't work flawlessly and it's always a pleasant surprise when a windows pc does...
So maybe the Apple failures just stand out more in my mind.
Also, when things do go wrong, I know my way around a windows system a little better, so it's easier for me to fix.
No, sometimes you get a lot less than you pay for, especially when you are buying the latest in designer products. Apple has always been expensive for what you pay for, but I have to admit that they do a pretty slick job on their products, and their marketing is also very impressive.
I'd recommend a dual boot as well. You'll want Windows 8 to test on, etc. but I think, once you've played with 8, you would want to go back to Windows 7 for development.
Windows 8 is flaky for me - you'll need to buy (to get a stable one) replacement for the start menu, which still seems stunningly asinine to me, defaults won't work, and I even have to reboot on occasion for things like double clicking stops working and starts performing right clicks instead. No it's not a setting; a reboot fixes it every time.
(and worst of all, my Evoluent vertical mice don't work quite normally either).
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. - George Carlin
I have recently started using Windows 8 and it took some getting used to. The biggest thing was no traditional start menu. Once you figure out (and get accustomed to it) the 'Modern UI' start screen is actually your start menu but on some serious steroids then it is a none issue.
I'm doing all my dev on it now using Visual Studio 2012 (I also have a WAMP environment set up for occasional PHP stuff) with no issues at all. There was a learning curve for the first few days though, but that's part of the fun IMO.
I think this question is important enough to be a survey on the CP home page - perhaps with some additions (and taking out your HD related question ).
There are already a couple of good answers. I wish I was able to add to them, but I will be in the same boat as you pretty soon and I am also interested in hearing what other developers here have to say about their actual experience with doing development on Windows 8.
Actually, I am mostly interested in hearing if there is something you cannot accomplish when developing under Win8, specifically regarding XP targeted development. I will be stuck with that for some time and know there are some pitfalls with the .NET Framework 4.5 as previously posted here (was that by CG and Espen or Pete? I thought I had the posts bookmarked, but I guess not ).
I agree... it's a good question to get feedback from the whole community from. I'm a bit torn over the decision of which way to go, bleeding edge and risk OS related problems or go for the safe bet with Win7?
I don't know about drive swappage, but I'm going Windows 8 on my new dev desktop, and will in all likelihood regale the Lounch with a fair number of regular observations.
The first is the insanely quick start-up. Not timed yet, but on a 3.4GHz i5 with 16GB ram and 125GB SSD, Windows 8 starts in what seems like purely physical boot time. Then, just click the Desktop tile to get back to a more familiar environment.
I also was looking for something you could easily place/remove hard drives in
case anyone knows of specific towers that let you do that easily
There are a ton of options available. One of the units that I got a while ago that I quite like for convenience is from Antec: Antec Bay YouTube review[^]
The advantage of this bay is that you can put any drive in it without needing to swap the drives into different mounting trays so it makes it easy to use multiple different drives in the same bay. The other alternatives normally have some tray you have to first mount the drive to and then slide the tray in - those models are less convenient if you're trying to swap out multiple drives (unless of course you buy multiple trays), but some of those models include additional fans, a handle for the tray for convenience and portability, a nicer "finished" look (so you don't see a drive sticking out of your case; not an issue for my Antec P180 case since it has a door covering all of the front bays), a keylock mechanism, and a tray design that provides some protection to your drive if your travelling with it.
I've used the more traditional removable bay/tray units before and like them, but it really depends on how you plan to use it - that's why I figured I'd pass on info on the Antec unit. Some decent StarTech bays (see model #DRW150SASBK) can be found here[^]
One last tip - be careful to get a unit that supports good cooling. It doesn't need to have a fan as long as it's designed well and with the proper materials. If getting a unit with a fan be prepared to replace it - they often use cheap fans that start to make a lot of noise after a year or so.
I can't speak for anyone else here but in my case 7. I tried Win8 Pro for awhile (after evaluating all the Previews) and couldn't find a single thing about it that enhanced my development environment. Nada. If anything it broke a couple of things I needed.
I won't speak to its viability as a tablet O/S but for a desktop (development system) it offers nothing UNLESS you plan to write for the "Modern" interface.
I'd prefer to use whichever was my target platform as the code will be the most stable on the OS it was developed under. I don't have any time on a Win8 box, so all things being equal, I'd opt for Win7, simply because I prefer to stick to tools I already know how to use well.
Albert Holguin wrote:
easily place/remove hard drives in case anyone knows of specific towers that let
you do that easily
Get one with USB3 and use a USB3 external drive. Its nearly as fast as SATA. If SATA performance is critical, there's a lot of removeable drive bay options that fit in a standard 5.25" optical bay, some even use enclosures that include USB2 ports on them for use as an external USB2 drive. If I recall, ineo, StarTech, and others make the USB2 kind.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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