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Apparently, code built with VS2012 will not run on Windows XP. So our native C++/Win32/MFC code we're building today on VS2010 (which runs great on XP) will no longer run on XP if recompiled under VS2012 due to runtime library dependencies. We still have customers running XP so VS2012 just isn't an option.
I am sort of glad not to have jumped on every developer fad they put out only to later relatively quickly obsolete it and drop it for the next big thing when all along native C++/Win32/MFC continues to work very well and get the job done nicely and its just keeps on going without threat of them trying to kill it for some new fancy fad 
modified 25 Aug '12 - 20:06.
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You can compile with VS2010 plateform -tools and runtime lib- and get all the goodies from VS 2012.
I was using C++/CLI, I assume it is the same with C++. Search for "Toolset" in my last article.
No hack, it is just an option in your project properties.
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But if we're still using VS2010 tools in the VS2012 IDE then the question is, what's new in the VS2012 IDE which is worth upgrading? I've done some light reading on it and I'm not seeing a ton of really substantive improvements for native/C++ development (not C++/CLI). The latest msdn mag just came and I flipped through the VS2012 stuff and it looks like mostly fluff to me (again coming from the perspective of a native/C++ developer not making web apps or .NET code).
I think upgrading for the language stuff would be nice, but with dropping XP support it just isn't worth it. Can't afford to have code suddenly overnight not work on customer XP machines where it worked before just due to some arbitrary change by MS.
Look and feel of the IDE doesn't seem all that impressive imo / we have Visual Assist X which pretty much does everything needed so even the intellisense updates don't seem all that impressive.
I'm sure upgrading is inevitable eventually, but not before we can be assured our customers don't need to run on XP.
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There is only one improvement that made me take VS2012, but without it I would not bother developping in C++/CLI :
Intellisense
They dropped the support for intellisense in VS 2010. (just for C++/CLI not C++ native)
The other great thing come from C++ 11 support. Namely the auto keyword (same thing as the var in .NET), and closures (what we call lambda expressions).
You can compile with the VS 2010 toolset, so you should not have any problem.
Anyway, I'm not a native developer, more a .NET one, and the core thing for me was intellisense with C++/CLI. But I'm also not the type of person that like to change tools just because that's new. 
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I didn't realize Intellisense was not avail for non-native code. Are you aware of Visual Assist X from Whole Tomato? Thats a great addon and does a much better job than the built-in stuff (though it does use the intellisense database I think).
The auto keyword is already provided in VS2010, but there are other parts of C++ 11 not in VS2010 (perhaps lambda expressions).
I've been using auto in VS2010 for awhile and its definitely a nice feature. I haven't gotten into lambda expressions yet -- in one way they rub me the wrong way. They seem like a nice abbreviation, but sometimes I'd prefer to more explicitly spell things out for code readability.
Sounds like we have similar views on the new shiny IDE, but we're just in different areas (native vs. CLI). I can definitely see upgrading if you don't have intellisense at all in VS2010. Seems odd they would have dropped something a fundamental as that.
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Yes, the C++ team partially explained their failure with vs 2010. They started a refactoring that was too big for them. I will try the Visual Assist X stuff.
For .NET developers, closure in C++ are a very cool feature because we are used to them.
int main(int argc, char* argv[])
{
int b = 3;
auto f = [&]() {printf("Increment B"); b++;};
f();
printf("b : %d",b);
return 0;
}
You can see that I defined a function pointer without any typedef and stored it in f.
The lambda has access to b. (closure)
This will print "Increment B 4".
You can specify explicitely which local variable you want to capture.
In this example [&] means : caputre all locals variable by reference. I could have captured them by value.
It makes windows function with callback a little easier to write, because we don't have to pass arguments in the "state" argument anymore.
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yes, good point. with closure you do get some very nice simplifications and as you said aren't passing state around.
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... I expect to upgrade to VS 12 along with Win8 for workstation(s) and Windows Server 2012/SQL Server 2012/TFS for server(s) ... all this presumably sometime towards end of this year. Will use VS 2010 side-by-side until all my projects are eventually upgraded, which usually takes 1-2 years (depending on upgrades due to bugs new user requests )
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Seeing as my job consists primarily of maintaing Windows Mobile/Windows CE clients, and the Windows Mobile SDK doesn't even run on 2010, I doubt VERY much it'll work on 12!
Still very bitter about Microsoft killing Windows Mobile in the enterprise, but such is life.... :-P
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I'm not someone that like to test new and shiny things, if I don't see its value.
But I recently had to do interop stuff, and I took a try to VS2012 because it improved the unmanaged side.
No deception, good stuff, do what it needs to do. Some bugs here and there, but the transition went smoothly.
For full C# project, I am always using VS2010 though.
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After all, I am Windows 8 app developer so I am using visual studio 2012
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My development machine runs Vista, which is unsupported for some bizarre reason. 
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Our main product is a Visual Studio/Eclipse plug-in, so we obviously have to support VS2012. I wrote about some of the hoops we've had to jump through just to support the VS2012 dark theme[^] recently, but that's just the start of it.
However, we're not considering moving our own code from VS2008 (we skipped VS2010 due to its bugs and sluggishness) to VS2012 just yet - for one thing we still have to support devs using Windows XP, and for another we're not sure if we could cope with staring at that amount of greyness all day.
C++ 11 support is a big, big draw though (I for one am heartily sick of C++ '03 code). If we can't resist it and VS2012 doesn't fit the bill adopting the Intel C++ compiler in VS2008 is the other logical choice.
Anna ![Rose | [Rose]](/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
Tech Blog | Visual Lint
"Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: and for another we're not sure if we could cope with staring at that amount of greyness all day.
Easy fix: Use the dark theme. 
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde
Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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Ah but that's just a different shade of grey. 
Seriously though - if we do decide to use 2012 it would make more sense to use dark as default anyway - to support requires a pile of custom drawing code which isn't active under the default OS theme (see the link in the original post), and the more we use it, the more bugs we'll catch earlier.
But it's a moot point for the moment, as we have to support customers on XP & Win2k3. One of our mobile support machines also runs XP, so that would also have to be replaced to use 2012.
Anna
Tech Blog | Visual Lint
"Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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TBH Notepad++ does 90% if what I need and for the rest I use Netbeans as it's mostly Java and PHP these days for me.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done.
Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H
OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre
I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer
Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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On my company laptop I have 2010 but I don't really use it.
I'm almost all the time working on a customer premises and using whatever they use there.
I really don't care... Renewing software licenses (specially from M$) is usually too expensive for the amount of benefit you actually take from it.
I've been using all kind of stuff for too many years now... I'm in a phase where I just need to know the rules of the game and I'll just play it!
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AlexCode wrote: I'm almost all the time working on a customer premises and using whatever they use there.
I really don't care... Renewing software licenses (specially from M$) is usually too expensive for the amount of benefit you actually take from it.
You mean you don't care "as long as it's some version of the VS-IDE"? Just try to create a complex WinForm under MonoDevelop, or edit an ASP.NET page using nano or vim.
If I compare the VS-IDE with MonoDevelop, I can only point out that the VS-IDE is loaded with features that improve one's productivity - from the Forms-designer up to the editor for the Assembly.cs file; it's all there.
Then you fire up MonoDevelop, add a breakpoint to a console-app in VB.NET; and start to cry. Not that MonoDevelop is bad, it's a great product - but it's no Visual Studio.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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I have this rule in life that eases the way I handle things, it's called the
"I don't care" rule.
This rule has only one amendment:
It's only applicable if you can't do anything about it.
Basically if I get to a customer that only have Linux workstations and everyone uses Vi or Vim I have to evaluate:
1. Can I do anything about it?
NO? ... So I don't care...
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Pragmatic and effective! I'll give a try next time
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Just try to create a complex WinForm under MonoDevelop, or edit an
ASP.NET page using nano or vim.
Don't know much about MonoDevelop and WinForms, but I did edit a few ASP.NET pages with vim and even wrote one from scratch.
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Moving to another VS would mean going through the IT purchasing process. No piece of software is worth that much misery. I'll move up when my machine finally dies under the weight of crap installed by IT and I have to replace it.
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it hasn't even been officially released yet!
and people make fun of Mac fanbois...
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Chris Losinger wrote: it hasn't even been officially released yet!
Details, details!
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Yes it has - It's been available for download on MSDN for almost a week now...
Why can't I be applicable like John? - Me, April 2011
-----
Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn - Seán Bán Breathnach
-----
Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo!
-----
Just because a thing is new don’t mean that it’s better - Will Rogers, September 4, 1932
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the retail release date is not until the middle of next month.
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Yes, but do you seriously not think that an earlier release for subscribers counts???
Why can't I be applicable like John? - Me, April 2011
-----
Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn - Seán Bán Breathnach
-----
Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo!
-----
Just because a thing is new don’t mean that it’s better - Will Rogers, September 4, 1932
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it definitely doesn't count for people like me, who don't buy the MSDN.
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Are you kidding me? What serious employer who wants best productivity from the programmers doesn't supply its employees with an MSDN subscription?
Why can't I be applicable like John? - Me, April 2011
-----
Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn - Seán Bán Breathnach
-----
Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo!
-----
Just because a thing is new don’t mean that it’s better - Will Rogers, September 4, 1932
modified 24 Aug '12 - 3:39.
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Johnny J. wrote: who wants best productivity from the programmers
productivity is not the product of having access to every stupid thing MS dreams up.
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Damn, you spotted the weak point in my argument...
Why can't I be applicable like John? - Me, April 2011
-----
Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn - Seán Bán Breathnach
-----
Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo!
-----
Just because a thing is new don’t mean that it’s better - Will Rogers, September 4, 1932
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and for the record: i run my own business. and for that, i only need the C/C++ compiler. MSDN would be a total waste of money.
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Chris Losinger wrote: productivity is not the product of having access to every stupid thing MS dreams up.
..that might be, but it is linked to using the best tools.
Let me guess for a second; your OS is from MS, your primary programming language is from MS and your IDE is from MS. Probably your DB and Office-suite too.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: but it is linked to using the best tools.
which vs2012 might not be one of, for my needs.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: your OS is from MS, your primary programming language is from MS and your IDE is from MS. Probably your DB and Office-suite too.
and most are a release or so behind MS's current. so, what's your point?
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Chris Losinger wrote: which vs2012 might not be one of, for my needs.
Same might apply to VS2010, if your happy with your 2008-IDE.
Chris Losinger wrote: and most are a release or so behind MS's current. so, what's your point?
..that we'll have the same borin' bitchin' in two years with the release of VS2014, with everyone using the 2012 version happily.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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There seems to be some confusion on what version Windows 8 supports the installation of VS 2012 Express. I downloaded and loaded the Windows 8 Release Preview Build 4200 then downloaded and tried to install the VS 2012 Express only to find the setup is blocked. (.Net version 4.5.?)
It's not that important, I just wanted a preview of what's new. I only moved to VS 2010 a month ago, so I can wait a few more months for a proper Win 8 installation.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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The VS2012 RTM won't install on a pre-release build of Windows 8 such as the Develpper Preview - it requires Windows 8 RTM.
Anna
Tech Blog | Visual Lint
"Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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There's also a Visual Studio extension I believe. Also, MS did say they would provide an official way to do this. I assume they haven't?
Kevin
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If there's an "official" way, I haven't been made aware of it. I assume by "official" you mean that some way will be found to "fix" this issue from inside VS. I also await (eagerly) an official way to bring back the beautiful icons and colors of VS10 *sigh*
Grace + Peace
Peter N Roth, President
http://PNR1.com
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Yes, I assume "official" means a way from inside VS.
Kevin
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If there's a way in VSX (the core Visual Studio interfaces) to set the core IDE icons I've not found it yet. I have however figured out how to dynamically change add-in icons (messy, but it works), which helps my company a bit but doesn't solve the real problem.
One oddity to contend with is that if you add any colour icons to the IDE, switching to the dark theme will cause them to be inverted and have their luminance adjusted - which can have some odd effects.
I need to find the time to do more testing with VS2012 to see what else I can turn up.
Anna
Tech Blog | Visual Lint
"Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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Hi, guys, do you still remember Visual Studio 2003? no? well, it's back, with a new name called 2012... at least the look and feel...
Regards,
unruledboy_at_gmail_dot_com
http://www.xnlab.com
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Hardly. I hated VS 2003 and I have been in 2012 quite a bit and enjoy 2012. They are hardly the same.
I am guessing you have not actually used it and are purely going by the toned down colors, which IMO is good. 2010 had lots of glamour and distractions.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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You might be right that the more we use it, the better we understand and accept it. new stuffs require time to adapt 
Regards,
unruledboy_at_gmail_dot_com
http://www.xnlab.com
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Collin Jasnoch wrote: which IMO is good. 2010 had lots of glamour and distractions.
Disagree. I daresay I will get used to VS 2012 when I get round to using it but I found nothing wrong with colour and "distractions" in VS 2010.
Kevin
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That is likely because you are blissfully distracted
No but seriously, how would you know if you had not used the less distracting "version"?
If one claims 'B' is less distracting than 'A' but you have only used 'A', it is hard to claim 'A' is not distracting. 'A' is merely as distracting as you expect it since it is all you know.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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But suppose I don't find it distracting in the first place?
Kevin
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Yes I understand that. Maybe I am using the wrong word.
Some of MS's reasoning for changing the layout and how the IDE works was statistical findings that people were doing things "The hard way" or not doing it at all.
So I guess my point is, you would not know if you were doing it the hard way.. Or you would not know about the feature the IDE has had all along ( because it was buried in "distractions"). Granted, most of us were ignorant to the issues, but this was what they found (at least that is what they have posted for their reasoning)
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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That's why when in comes to Win32 I still want to use VS 6.0. 
in another thousand years we'll be machines or gods█
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