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Microsoft's contribution to the developers community is creditable. It has developed many tools and packages that helps a developer develop large and robust application with minimal effort. Microsoft's MSDN i.e. online dev library is excellent.
No doubt Google and Sun have contributed in the race, but not to the extend what Microsoft did !
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Sandeep Aparajit wrote:
No doubt Google and Sun have contributed in the race, but not to the extend what Microsoft did !
Well, to be fair, Google made MSDN online usable. 
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Ya I completely agree with you. Google's search is the most powerfull search I have ever seen, I points to the exact page we require.
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The combination of MSDN ocean and Google undersea submarine makes a real adventerous and memorable sea travel.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar
Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis Levinson
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yes i agree with you
hello I am new here,nice to meet you
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Quick, where is the barf bag?
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It's the tool that I use the most as a developer. Without Google, any question I didn't have an answer for would be very very very hard to find the answer to.
Given the vast amount of extremely detailed knowledge that is required to be a developer that deals with anything outside of very simplistic problem domains, having ready access to that information is the most important part of being able to do your job well. Google provides access to that information.
You could say that of any search engine, of which there are many, but there are many because they are competing with Google, and Google set the standard they are trying to meet or exceed.
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"Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." - Jon Postel, First Law of Internet Communications
"It's 5:50 a.m., Do you know where your stack pointer is?"
"If at first you don't succeed, you must be a programmer."
http://vanguard-against-confusion.blogspot.com
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Apple just gives us crappy development tools and languages, and Google only gives Gears and some useless APIs. Microsoft's working hard, as you can see in older posts here.
I'd been called 'ugly', 'pug ugly', 'fugly', 'pug fugly' but never 'ugly ugly'. - Moe Szyslak
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I absolutely agree. And I would like to elaborate on the Apple issue. I recently bought iPod and was anxious about starting developing for it!
However Apple let me down in a frustrating way:
- The API was released with delay.
- In the beginning, when I tried to register so as to download the SDK I just couldn't! I suppose this has something to do with the fact that I am Greek and not an American citizen, so I am not eligible for such a highly confidential SDK...
- AND THE MOST IMPORTANT: The languages and tools you have to use for developing for such a pretty machine are..."ugly ugly"!!!
                     
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I partially agree. Apple is rotten. But Google is Golden.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar
Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis Levinson
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I agree. In addition, Intel is working hard too. IPP, VTune, C++ Compiler and MKL are really useful tools.
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Well, Google has provided us with Google Search, without whom we'd never find any documentation in MSDN...
Stupidity is an International Association - Enrique Jardiel Poncela
Die deutsche Sprache sollte sanft und ehrfurchtsvoll zu den toten Sprachen abgelegt werden, denn nur die Toten haben die Zeit, diese Sprache zu lernen. - Mark Twain
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I can only say that "we are all running on Intel machines" (I run my Ubuntu on a MacBook). And if it wasn't for these guys we wouldn't be where we are today. All my development in the robotics space (which I know is very different from what the majority of you guys work on) is developed on and for Intel-based PC's. It's that clear
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No real company in general. They all serve a purpose, but having access to information is key. None of them would be anywhere (from a programming standpoint) if there wasn't a community to support and disseminate what they offer and how they offer it.
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Bert delaVega wrote: if there wasn't a community to support and disseminate what they offer
Like CP ?
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I like IntelliJ products like IDEA and ReSharper. They really make a developers life easier.
Tunca Bergmen
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I totally agree, their tools are unmatched.
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Unsubscribe from T.C.P. and its many idiot members wrote: I totally agree, their tools are unmatched.
Hey Mr. Grumpy Gils, since you're a member here... wouldn't that also make you an idiot?
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For those that cannot understand why Microsoft leads this poll, lets take a look at what Microsoft has and contrinues doing for developers:
- Offers fully free tools (Visual Studio etc) that go beyond a simple IDE to just type in code.
- Develops these tools continuously (every 2 years a new version).
- Evolves the programming languages in a unpresendented pace. Please try and find another example at other company that creates and evolves programming languages like MS has done with C#, Linq, etc. Also compare that to other companies (like Apple) who are stuck in programming ideas and notions of the previous century (try to develop for the iPod in objective-C for example...Carbon and locomotives was the idea of travelling back in the 1800's)
- Listens to the developers. Give me an example of another company conducting so many developers activities. MS is currently in the process of upgrading MFC just because it saw how many developers were using MFC!
- You want to write a program for Windows? You go on and do it, in an intuitive and pretty easy way. The APIs are out there, tutorials are many, communities supported by MS exist in hundrends, MS even gives away whole ready-made projects with the source code to use and modify! You want to develop for Android, iPod, Symbian? Try it and come back...
I don't say that developing for other platforms is impossible. I develop for every platform. However, the support I get for applications in Windows environmenr compares to nothing!
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I agree.
Microsoft has done a lot by bringing development to the masses. If Visual Basic never existed, there would be a lot less programs. Microsoft technologies are fairly homogen throughout the various platforms. I'm particularly excited about the .Net framework.
Programming for Desktop Windows, XBox, Windows Mobile, Windows CE, the Zune, and what not, all that on the same IDE, and with great OS integration? That's great!
"Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes." - Edsger Dijkstra
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Palavos wrote: - Offers fully free tools (Visual Studio etc) that go beyond a simple IDE to just type in code.
KDE and Sun both do. Oh, and VS for years was just a simple IDE with a lame C/C++ compiler. Or a *free* lock you into to Windows tool, aka VB. Not to mention, VS only *recently* became free.
Palavos wrote: - Develops these tools continuously (every 2 years a new version).
Every person/company in the world that makes a compiler and IDE.
Palavos wrote: - Evolves the programming languages in a unpresendented pace. Please try and find another example at other company that creates and evolves programming languages like MS has done with C#, Linq, etc.
Which makes it harder for devs to keep up and usually offer little *value* to your workday. And LINQ doesn't really do much except for making sure you don't know SQL. You could use SQL Server or ODBC with work with tons of data sources (not just MSSQL) for years.
Palavos wrote: Also compare that to other companies (like Apple) who are stuck in programming ideas and notions of the previous century (try to develop for the iPod in objective-C for example...Carbon and locomotives was the idea of travelling back in the 1800's)
If you want to be honest then, Sun has done just as much for programmers as Microsoft. Where do you think .NET was copied from?
Palavos wrote: Listens to the developers.
They didn't listen to the classic VB guys, nor do they listen to the C/C++ guys who want a good IDE again.
Palavos wrote: You want to write a program for Windows? You go on and do it, in an intuitive and pretty easy way. The APIs are out there, tutorials are many, communities supported by MS exist in hundrends, MS even gives away whole ready-made projects with the source code to use and modify!
So does any company, you should try it. Development for the Palm OS for instance, wasn't that hard. Just to name one.
Palavos wrote: I don't say that developing for other platforms is impossible. I develop for every platform. However, the support I get for applications in Windows environmenr compares to nothing!
MSDN is a great resource. Then again, so is Google.
Gee, sounds to me like you're just biased.
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You didn't get the meaning of what I said. Of course a lot of companies have and still offer a great deal to developers. Who can say that giants like Sun, Google, Apple, IBM etc do not offer developers tools or support?
What I am trying to say is that there is a reason why Microsoft leads the way, why Microsoft leads this poll, why you are HERE (and not at a Sun developers forum) to write comments, why more applications and games are developed for Windows.
And I am not talking about some alien conspiracy that makes everyone buy or use Windows by controlling ones mind with extra-secret CIA technologies. IF YOU WANT, you develop for Windows with MS tools. If you don't want, you don't! And THE MARKET HAS DECIDED that Microsoft is the leader in the developers world.
You can comment as much as you like on that, but given the market data and the sheer market numbers (i.e. applications / games developed every year for every platform), it can easily be proved you are wrong.
Ciao!
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Palavos wrote: You didn't get the meaning of what I said.
On the contrary.
Palavos wrote: What I am trying to say is that there is a reason why Microsoft leads the way, why Microsoft leads this poll, why you are HERE (and not at a Sun developers forum) to write comments, why more applications and games are developed for Windows.
I don't do .NET. I'm at CP because of CP and its community. I don't visit other MS sites or newsgroups. Point is, it's a CP thing and not a MS thing. Which btw, CP is growing to use non-MS stuff now. And, I'm still gonna be here.
And, more apps are developed for Windows because Windows is popular. This has less to do with MS' support for devs than it does people wanting to sell their software and people just being used to Windows because that's what's already on their machine.
Palavos wrote: And THE MARKET HAS DECIDED that Microsoft is the leader in the developers world.
No, you decided that. Most code out there is non MS specific. I won't let the facts get in your way though.
Palavos wrote: You can comment as much as you like on that, but given the market data and the sheer market numbers (i.e. applications / games developed every year for every platform), it can easily be proved you are wrong.
Once again, apples and oranges, when defending your love for MS. We're talking about what they've done for devs, not the popularity of Windows. If you're going to be a zealot, at least stay focused.
Peace.
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Again you missed the point. And just answering a "on the contrary" won't be eligible as an answer this time...
First of all, what Microsoft does for developers is the reason why Windows has so many applications and, thus, why Windows is so popular! All these things are interconnected and not seperate. More apps are developed for Windows, Windows get even more popular, so even more apps are developed for Windows etc etc... This loop would not however be possible if Microsoft was not the best in supporting developers!
Secondly, you call me a zealot (which is offensive and my level of education won't let me answer in a similar manner), but you cannot see facts laid in front of you crystal clear: you say that more applications are indeed developed for Windows but then you say that most code is not MS specific? Maybe if I would say that it is Windows-specific you would be ok with that?
"I won't let the facts get in your way though." does not do anything but show your apparent lack of arguments.
Last but not least, what does it mean that "I don't do .NET, I'm a CP" ??? Codeproject was for YEARS a solely Microsoft-related developers source! Only NOW, as you say, does CP start hosting source for other environments as well. And certainly this is a good thing, I agree on that.
Peace yes, but without calling each other names (i.e. 'zealot').
Happy coding!
modified on Monday, May 19, 2008 7:44 AM
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