|
Have you / would you accept a counter offer if you resign and your current employer is willing to increase your salary? There are a lot of arguments against it and also some for it, depending on the circumstances.
If you did, how did it work out?
You thoughts / experience with this?
|
|
|
|
|
If your reason to resign is money - you may accept, however you should first ask for that money and explain why...
If you did that and the only way was to get it is to resign - you have some problem with the employer, who only willing to pay when it hurts him... Hi may will hurt you back if there is a chance...
So it is a very delicate situation, and if you have a firm chance to get another job with the right money and all, IMHO you should go with that...
Of course, if the reason not money, than it is not a question...
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
|
|
|
|
|
If there are things that are making an employee unhappy enough for them to quit, then increased pay will only cover that dissatisfaction for a short period of time (I vaguely recall an academic study showing about 6 months). Eventually the unhappiness will triumph, and the employee will leave again.
Thus (and I realise I'm writing this from an employers perspective), thus it's only worth doing if there is sufficient benefit for having the employee for an additional 6 months, or if there is a genuine attempt to resolve the causes of employee dissatisfaction.
From your perspective the two things to consider would be:
- can you use your position to negotiate to resolve the causes of unhappiness?
- how would you feel to be in the same place, in 6 months time, with the pay increase a distance memory?
|
|
|
|
|
NeverJustHere wrote: If there are things that are making an employee unhappy enough for them to quit, then increased pay will only cover that dissatisfaction for a short period of time (I vaguely recall an academic study showing about 6 months).
This. I've been faster, 3 months.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
|
|
|
|
|
I was in the employee position, and I refused for two reasons:
- First, I did not want to leave only because of the money.
- Second, if an employer thinks they can manipulate me with money, then the relation is toxic. What is the message : Is that an acknowledgment that they have underpaid me until now ? Or does it mean that their first thought about good relationship is that it increases with money ?
Honestly, I never looked back and never had regrets for leaving.
Then, every situation is different.
|
|
|
|
|
Exactly this. (Long) before going freelance, I was working for a UK company that was taken over by a US corporation (won't name it, but it's initials were an anagram of DES). Very quickly the company's previous ethos of looking after staff, being flexible to their needs, catering for their development went out of the window. Project timescales were hugely shortened (at the expense of quality) whilst the fees to the client went up. I was doing overnight on-call support (in addition to the daytime hours) and getting nothing for it. I repeatedly pointed out that we (the whole team) had lost so many benefits, were expected to work longer and harder, and were losing out on future prospects by being associated with shoddy deliverables, all to no avail. Just responses that we were being paid "market rate". Within an hour of my resignation letter hitting my line-manager's desk, the "big boss" was handing me a coffee in his office with an offer to substantially increase my salary - but no-one else's. He just looked confused when I told him he "just didn't get it". It's the only time I ever slammed a door at work.
The next job I had was the best permie role I ever had.
|
|
|
|
|
No counter offer worked for me. Once resigned, I never changed my mind.
"In testa che avete, Signor di Ceprano?"
-- Rigoletto
|
|
|
|
|
My experience had the increased salary lower than the new place and the promise of meal tickets - which I discovered are still not available 2.5 years after I resigned.
Anyway it depends on why I'm going away. If it is because the company tried to fark me over one time too many, because I lost trust in the company or similar, it's not a question of money.
If I'm leaving because they are underpaying me I'd consider it, keeping in mind that a company that is underpaying will probably not keep up with future raises I'd get in the new one, so either the counteroffer is extremely good and my relation with the company is sound or it's just not worth it.
Mostly it comes down to the fact that I had to leave in order to get some recognition, which does not bode well. A healthy environment would prevent people from going away instead of trying to repair a done damage.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
|
|
|
|
|
If your reason for leaving was low salary, you should have raised this with your employer before quitting. Accepting a counter-offer is risky - the employer may see you as a "short timer", and will get rid of you at his convenience, leaving you looking for a new job.
If your reason for leaving was not money, the counter-offer is irrelevant.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
|
|
|
|
|
If you stay, then you'll be viewed as someone who looking to jump ship sometime in the future. It may even be that you're the first to go when there are cuts (been there), or at the very least not worth putting time/money into further training.
Leave on good terms citing that you want to gain experience (emphasize its not the money) at the other place. Even hint that you really like working there and would like to come back in the future with new found knowledge (I've been back to one place 3 times and another twice). It also leaves an opening if the new job sucks.
// TODO: Insert something here Top ten reasons why I'm lazy
1.
|
|
|
|
|
I have had only one counter offer in my life, the big boss of the local office came to me and asked why I was leaving (it hurt them way more they wanted to recognize).
I told him my main reason, I was moving together with my SO to a new place and didn't want to do 1 to 1,5 hours commute each way (with standard traffic) every day, and my secondary reason was that my salary wasn't increasing parallel to my responsibilities and amount of work.
He offered me to count the commute increase as work hours and asked me why didn't say something about the salary before...
I had to refrain myself (either from laughing or for being "not nice") and then I answered back: "The point is, I already have done it... twice. In last two yearly revisions with my direct boss"
He only said "A-ha" and left the room after a couple of minutes of additionally small talk.
...........
Going back to the your question.
I say the same as others, accepting a counter offer is not a good idea. BUT... I do see a BUT...
- If you already have another job (I have never resigned a position without having a new one), then try to end in good terms, but go away and don't look back.
- If you resigned without having a new job, then say yes... the following months are not going to get better and you will end wanting to go anyways. But at least you know that you are worth more than what you were previously getting and that might give you confidence to ask for more in the upcoming interviews. If you don't find anything else, then at least you can save more during this time to have a larger period of tranquility if something goes wrong and you end leaving anyways.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
Never and I've had it several times.
If I'm unhappy, I'll have a negotiation with my boss and if unresolved I'll go and look.
Once you've had an offer to leave, you'll never be fully trusted to stay.
veni bibi saltavi
|
|
|
|
|
Nagy Vilmos wrote: Once you've had an offer to leave, you'll never be fully trusted to stay.
This, IMHO, is the only reason why you should never stay if they increase your pay, etc.
They will never trust you again.
|
|
|
|
|
They may just take you back to fire you. Nothing like second guessing yourself.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
|
|
|
|
|
|
Don't! it never works out well.
I have never personally done it. Watched it fail spectacularly for both employee and employer many many times in many many ways. I have watched this from inside management. From outside management. It all is a train wreck.
Usually goes something like this.
HR/Management - "John" is leaving he knows the sh*t we need to keep John around to find out what he knows. Offer him anything to stay.
Management - OK John you get 2x your salary before to stay and all the vacation you could ever want, we just came to understand how much you mean to our world and we cannot live without you.
John - OK
Management to HR - Quietly find someone who can learn from John and be John's apprentice/whipping boy.
HR -ok
Management - Hey John since you are so busy we got you this great kid who you can order around to do anything you want them too.
John - OK!
Management to Kid - Learn everything and you get a 2x raise.
Kid - OK!
6months to a year later
Management and HR - Sorry John but your services are no longer needed. Good bye!
John - huh?????
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
|
|
|
|
|
IMHO, software engineers are not motivated by money as much as they are by intellectual curiosity and the desire to continuously learn new things.
There has to be other reasons why you wish to leave your current employment.
For me counter offers would never motivate me to stay.
Every time, I made a move to leave a company it was based on convenience to my lifestyle at the time -- when commuting to work was a real thing and remote work didn't exist. For example, I gave up my first 90 minute car ride each way for a 15-20 minute one. The second time, I gave up a 100 mile round trip for a 12 mile round trip. It wasn't about the pay so much as the inconvenience to living a well-balanced life.
![Java | [Coffee]](https://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/Images/coffee.gif)
~d~
|
|
|
|
|
So if they countered by allowing you to work remotely would you have stayed?
Other non financial reasons may be broken internal processes that never get fixed / company culture until the company sees that it will cost them if they don't.
|
|
|
|
|
unfortunately back then it wasn't a thing; besides my work involves interfacing with hardware and you can't test that remotely. i suppose if it was a few days a week, i would have never left the place. i am very leery of working remotely, because there may come a time when they want in person meetings and i'm betting they won't pay the cost of traveling long distances, hotel rooms, airfare, etc. i always like being around my colleagues, working in the same area, being able to walk up and talk out a problem on the whiteboard, get help in the lab testing, etc. you can't replace that sort of stuff. i suppose if you are creating web pages and databases that sort of thing, it would be ok.
![Java | [Coffee]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/coffee.gif)
~d~
|
|
|
|
|
I've had three occasions where resigning brought counter offers:
1. I was working for a boss who hated me because I had shown up his incompetence a couple of times. I got an offer from another company giving me effectively a 50% raise in income (including the value of new benefits). Once I put in my resignation, my boss's boss brought me to his office and made a counter offer to increase my salary by 4%. For some reason he was surprised and disappointed when I turned it down. The next day he brought in his boss and they offered me a 20% raise and a double promotion (there were dozens of seniority levels so this wasn't really important) - which they said was the best they could do because of union restrictions as I didn't have an engineering degree (I had a PhD in CS but that didn't count apparently). I left, they had to hire three people to take over my job - so that cost them almost triple my salary - they could have doubled it and saved money - I might have stayed - it was a fun job except for the mad boss. He was fired three months later after another key programmer quit, citing him as the reason.
2. The next job after the one above paid me quite well but was an insurance company and was very restrictive in their procedures and actively discouraged thinking (inside or outside the box). I decided to go contracting and resigned - they immediately offered me a promotion to a management level and, again, a 50% pay raise, to stay. I didn't, the threat of being management overrode the generous money offer big time. Note: My first contract paid more than double what I would have got if I had stayed and was much more interesting and challenging.
3. After being a contractor for a few years I got a really interesting position and got renewed for three years. At that point the unions said "no more contractors" and I could not be renewed again so they offered me a permanent job, then a higher paid one, then another higher paid one. This latter would be enough money but the hierarchical level meant I would be working for someone who had effectively been working for me and I had previously been asking for her to be replaced because of her bad attitude. Also the level was such that I was pre-maxed out on incremental raises for three years before I could get another promotion. I left and actually went to a permanent job in Germany which started off as a contracting job and was changed to permanent before I started - this was one of my favourite jobs.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
|
|
|
|
|
In general - no, unless you're in a situation where you know there will be counter offers. The reason is that by the time you're ready to leave for another job you've already emotionally left the company.
|
|
|
|
|
Not me, but my son - he grew to dislike the area where he lived (NW Minnesota) and the project he was on, salary wasn't really an issue. He found a job at a new startup in Central MN (lakes & trees instead of tundra) at a nice hike in pay. When he turned in his notice his boss asked him to meet with mgmt the next morning to discuss keeping him. He agreed.
Then he called me (apparently a fount of wisdom is his opinion). I told him it was risky to stay on since his loyalty could be in doubt if times got tough. The new company was a new startup and only had a single customer but was working on a second. So going there was a risk too. I told him he was young and had lots of time to recover financially should the new company go under and finding a replacement would probably not be much of an issue for him. I also told him for the meeting to first think about what he thought their offer might be and to think about what it would take to stay. I said salary wasn't the issue so don't dwell too much on that aspect. But to just be ready to counter or politely reject theirs. Burning bridges is not usually a good way to go, the world is smaller than you think.
He called again after the meeting. He said there was the offer he thought they would make, the offer he would counter with and then there was the offer they actually made. He would be off the project he disliked, moving and working remote 100% of the time was not an issue and a fairly significant pay hike to boot. After talking to his wife he decided to stay and he's been pretty happy so far for the last 4 of 5 years.
So, it can work out. But, my advice still stands. It can be rather risky to stay. And if the move doesn't work out the next thing quite possibly could - especially when you're younger as he was. You can usually weather a seemingly bad financial hiccup easier than you may think in our line of work.
|
|
|
|
|
Once I accepted a counter-offer. How it worked out depends on your POV.
My problem was management -- company hired a middle manager who sucked up to anyone she thought would benefit her and was abusive to anyone below her in the hierarchy. Client loved her so management accepted it (until a year later when her actions were precipitating a lawsuit).
I accepted the counter-offer but resigned 6 months later (going to a 3rd company), as nothing had been fixed, only painted a different color. From that POV, it was a waste of time.
OTOH, my employer bumped me 10% in the counter-offer and 6 months later my new employer bumped me another 15% ... so from that POV? I'd love to do it every year!
Oddly enough, a co-worker went to my first choice. Within a month he complained to me about management problems, benefits changing weekly, etc. That company was defunct 3 years later. In the long term, things worked out well for me, but I can't claim it was part of my grand plan for world domination. The Force was with me during that time.
I see 2 options:
1) Take the money and see if anything changes. Give it 6 months and the re-evaluate.
2) If you are resigning, chances are the reasons won't change. If you think the new company is a really good offer (not just money but management, environment, etc), jump ship. If the offer is not that great, see #1.
|
|
|
|
|
If you have resigned and not talked to your employer before hand, then you need to think about why you are leaving. If it's for the money then you'll achieve your goal and save everyone a big hassle by leaving.
If you talked to them, asked for a raise, they said no, then you quit and then they offer a raise then leave. That's not cool. They can either afford to lose you or they can't. They shouldn't play games (to be fair circumstances can change, but there'd have to be a good story)
cheers
Chris Maunder
|
|
|
|
|
Earlier today, I saw a bumper sticker that said "I'm a veterinarian therefore I can drive like an animal".
Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the roads...
|
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
