The Lounge is rated PG. If you're about to post something you wouldn't want your
kid sister to read then don't post it. No flame wars, no abusive conduct, no programming
questions and please don't post ads.
1. The lounge is for the CodeProject community to discuss things of interest to the community, and as a place for the whole community to participate. It is, first and foremost, a respectful meeting and discussion area for those wishing to discuss the life of a Software developer.
The #1 rule is: Be respectful of others, of the site, and of the community as a whole.
2. Technical discussions are welcome, but if you need specific programming question answered please use Quick Answers[^], or to discussion your programming problem in depth use the programming forums[^]. We encourage technical discussion, but this is a general discussion forum, not a programming Q&A forum. Posts will be moved or deleted if they fit better elsewhere.
4. No politics (including enviro-politics[^]), no sex, no religion. This is a community for software development. There are plenty of other sites that are far more appropriate for these discussions. Or if you must, use the Back Room[^] - but enter at your own risk.
5. Nothing Not Safe For Work, nothing you would not want your wife/husband, your girlfriend/boyfriend, your mother or your kid sister seeing on your screen. For those discussions where you wish to be a little more frank, use the Soapbox[^]
6. Any personal attacks, any spam, any advertising, any trolling, or any abuse of the rules will result in your account being removed.
7. Not everyone's first language is English. Be understanding.
Please respect the community and respect each other. We are of many cultures so remember that. Don't assume others understand you are joking, don't belittle anyone for taking offense or being thin skinned.
We are a community for software developers. Leave the egos at the door.
If any of you want to play with getting control back over your updates, this thread prompted an idea to create a bat file to possibly do the job. If you have any improvements to the bat, please post them, as I've never mastered all the arcanery behind that process.
Recently, I became older. Over the course of my life, this has been a disturbing trend. However, the alternative doesn't seem much more appealing. I'd be willing to "Benjamin Button" it for a few years, but that doesn't seem to be on the menu.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm simply getting older. "I'm not old", he says, quickly concealing his gray hair.
I've noticed many older people ranting. It seems like it might be fun? So, I thought I'd experiment with it (in this post). I originally wanted to post this to my blog, but then realized I don't have one.
So, I'm posting it here instead. I'm hoping that the villagers will keep their pitchforks and Tiki torches in the shed. At the moment, I can't afford to pay a bridge troll its fare to pass.
So, anyhow, here goes...ranting powers activate...
I've been thinking a lot about software methodologies lately. Mostly, because there is no beer left in the fridge.
They always start out well-intentioned. "We keep falling behind our delivery schedules. Let's do something about that." Yeah!
Initially, much like a Mogwai, they start out all "cute and fuzzy". Then, someone feeds them after dark. Suddenly, they're trying to eat your face off.
OK, I digress, that might be some other critter. Honestly, I don't know much about Gremlins. I just know they're bad!
I think a better name might be software ideology. After the good intentions are long forgotten, the dogmatic elements become dominant.
"You can't do it that way." Why? Because, the methodology says its wrong.
We are uncovering better ways of developing
software by doing it and helping others do it.
Through this work we have come to value:
Individuals and interactions over processes and tools Working software over comprehensive documentation Customer collaboration over contract negotiation Responding to change over following a plan
That is, while there is value in the items on
the right, we value the items on the left more.
I continue to agree with absolutely every one of these goals. If anything, its almost an anti-methodology. I suspect, but cannot prove, the pain of those well-intentioned heroes.
However, it suffers the fate of most good intentions. It follows a life-cycle familiar to many of us.
Step 1: Save the World - Some people with good intentions, recognize a problem and try to fix it. "Let's write a few simple guidelines. That should help."
Step 2: Build a Better World - Inevitably, that damned imperfect "real" world refuses to cooperate. "It doesn't always work for us. Let's fuss with it. If we just add a few simple rules, it will be even better."
Step 3: Write a Book - People start to interpret or misinterpret those few simple rules. A couple more rules should add clarity. "These rules are a little unclear. Can someone maybe write a book on the topic?"
Step 4: Hire an Expert - Companies have difficulty consistently implementing the rules. A couple more rules are added to help. "We're having some trouble with those rules. Can we get one of the folks who wrote that book to help us with a lecture?"
Step 5: Get Certified - Companies recognize that people experience uneven success following the rules. A couple more rules are added to help. "Folks aren't consistently following the rules. Is there some certification they can get to make sure they understand?"
Step 6: Enforce The Rules - Companies recognize the results are still inconsistent. A couple more rules are added to help. "Folks are still inconsistently following the rules. Can we hire some management experts to help enforce them?"
Step 7: Build a Culture - Countless studies (with little peer review) conclude that this is THE WAY to develop software. "This is definitely the way to go, let's make it part of our corporate culture."
Step 8: Build a Religion - Evidence of a problem with the methodology seems to exist. "It didn't work for you? The methodology isn't wrong. You're just doing it wrong."
Step 9: Attend Seminars - – Fans of the methodology assemble. "Those dumb people still don't understand our methodology. Let's start a seminar so we can discuss it!"
Step 10: Recognize a Problem - The industry as a whole comes to realize the methodology is flawed, return to step 1. “Hey, this isn’t working. I heard about this new methodology. Let’s try it.”
I wish people would allow software methodologies to serve them instead of making it the other way around.
I wish people would recognize the wisdom in common clichés: all things in moderation, no solution fits all problems, etc.
If a methodology is working for a project, great! Use it. If its not, use a different methodology for a while.
Methodologies shouldn't be a suicide pact. Multiple methodologies can co-exist. Let's end the rule that new methodologies must kill off their predecessors. This isn't Thunderdome.
Ultimately, in the software industry, we're making sausages. It's sometimes an ugly business. However, if the product is of good quality and affordable, the process used to create it shouldn't matter too much.
Ranting wasn't as much fun as I hoped. I tried it. I don't think its the thing for me after all.
Ah well, there's beer in the fridge again...problem solved...ranting powers deactivate.
P.S. Apologies for originally posting this on Soap Box. After reading a few posts there, it seemed misplaced, so I moved it here. Long time author, but first new post on a forum, so hopefully I'm not too off base
The trouble with "methodologies" is that, sometimes, they fit the job at hand and the instigator/author gets all excited and writes a book about how well it all went and we should follow along and do the same thing, etc, ad infinitum blah, blah, blah.
The problem, of course, with this is that no 2 businesses are the same. No 2 groups of people are the same. And therein lies the rub. All processes, no matter how well orchestrated, are people driven. And people, for the most part, act like mindless cats and are impossible to herd in any meaningful way.
So, for me and me alone, the best approach has been to hire really smart people and let them get on with it. And they still all have personalities and characters and great ideas that tear down the "methodologies" and show them up for what they really are: a one size fits all problems that ends up being the problem.
Yeah, I like the notion of agile but I'm damned if I'll follow along slavishly. That is dumb.
Anyway, do what you want - people always do anyway.
ps I am also gaining age - it's been and is being a fun run.
Never let the bastards grind you down is the only pattern that really works for me.
Have a nice weekend, cats.
Keep your friends close. Keep Kill your enemies closer. The End
In my experience the problem is mostly just programmers who can't write decent software.
I've heard programmers say "software architecture isn't going to work for us, that's only nice in theory."
So no UI, business and data layers, no abstractions, no nothing.
No matter your software ideology, that's going to end bad (they were lucky that the software didn't change all that much).
Then I've seen software with a gazillion useless layers, just as bad.
Or software that took a non-DI library and used it as DI (the result was a very awkward method to instantiate objects when you need them, and no DI of course).
A completely wrong implementation of an ORM and the programmers who made the mess cursing the ORM (the problem really wasn't the ORM)...
Or a "core" library that every application depended on, but which changed almost daily.
These are programmers of all ages, not just the old farts.
No matter how clear or vague the business requirements are or how well your business structure is or how good the tools are you use, such software never ends well.
Maybe we should just learn to write software properly first.
After that we can worry about tools and methodologies.
In my experience the problem is mostly just programmers who can't write decent software.
I have worked with some real jerks. One guy in particular found an old and odd definition of a csv file, different to Lotus and MSFT (and everyone else for that matter) and he insisted on using his version in his code. Result, it couldnt read a csv created by say excell.
And he did it just because he could argue he was 'right'.
Crazy eh? Yet his line leader and manager let him get away with it. They were scared of offending him.
I have worked with other plain incompetent engineers who dont know why a UI locks up when its thread is asked to do heavy processing. That team actually threw away an app I wrote just to write their own, and because they couldnt understand function pointers, and made a complete mess of it.
One of the main reasons is fear of the new, the unknown. It is surprising how many SW engineers once they know something, cling to it, desperately. How unadaptable they are to new ways of thinking, and how attached to their code they are, as if it is their flesh and blood.
They fixed the ELEPHANTING soft keyboard!
Yes! it's back like it was before the last update: SHIFT, CTRL, and ALT now stay on while you hold them down. Ahhhhh ... Seems to be smaller as well, so more of the screen is visible.
That may sound minor, but try highlighting a dozen words when SHIFT and CTRL only affect the next keypress and you'll understand.
Mind you, the V_sign emoji could be handy in QA... ✌
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
This is how a civilization adopts a logographic written language.
Year 1600: Yond is a most wondrous idea! thee shouldst bid me m're about t!
Year 2000: That is a great idea! You should tell me more about it!
Year 2018: Dat is a gr8 idea! u should tell me more about it!
Year 2400: 👍💡🗣👁