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I'm afraid they adapted the Windows GUI to the average cognitive level. They probably think (and they are not entirely wrong) that [OK] and [Cancel] are two "concepts" that are too complicated to understand.
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Richard Andrew x64 wrote: How do you feel about the trend toward making Windows desktop dialog boxes commit all changes as soon as you make them
Did you just notice this?
Seems like I was seeing those at least 10 years ago.
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I recently worked on an inventory system and I started out trying to capture all the input from a rather complex dialog with several fields. Some of the data was encapsulated in classes displayed in ListViews. I had to provide current database values of those classes along with a set changed values that the user had made to the items in the list. This dialog had 3 different lists on it, each list was editable, they could add remove and change each one! I came to the conclusion it was easier just to remove the Cancel button and change OK to "Close". I had to add "Save" button to the top area of the dialog that contained several text fields that were actual candidates for an OK Cancel scenario.
I suppose one solution would be to provide two dialogs for this particular item, one for editing it's directly attached fields, those that are in it's table and another set of dialogs editing items that are in other tables, but to access those other dialogs it would have to be done at a higher level, not from the dialog containing the direct fields! So see what a mess it becomes, now you have to go all over the place to change a thing's properties and still adhere to the absolute rule that everything must allow a cancel feature!
I liked the way it turned out, it was all in one place, you got to it from one place, easier to use.
That OK Cancel design, man, it's old. Yeah, once I realized I had to somehow come up with this row needs to be removed, this item added, this one edited... The user could have worked for hours on the thing adding and removing stuff, taking a break, then the computer crashes or they lose power and all the changes held in the complicated "cancellable" classes would evaporate!
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In many situations I like the revised setting being reflected immediately - say in a graph - BUT to still have the ability to cancel and undo those changes. A little more work for the programmer but not hard and the user is the one whose time and brain space must be protected at almost any cost.
Where the results are not immediately visible I'd like to have a cancel button.
Martin
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I agree with you and would add that the inconsistency we see today can confuse users.
For our desktop apps, we've had user requests to add commit dialogs where the button labels are not explicitly "Save".
It's confusing to users, myself included sometimes, when a save event is fired on a 'check change' of a radio or checkbox control. It also can add more data writes than having a confirmed save changes. Seems more prevalent in browser-based controls, where there are more programming considerations than in the more controlled desktop space.
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Postman: Hello Mrs. Hansen, is it true that your husband is at sea almost all year round and is only at home for a month?
Ms. Hansen: Yes
Postman: Then you must surely suffer terribly?
Ms. Hansen: No, not really. A month goes by quickly
modified 5-Apr-24 17:09pm.
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I was doing something with a Windows Forms application and noticed that when the main form is minimized, its Left and Top properties are both -32000. That's way out of view of a normal system. Why does it do that? I wonder if anyone has a system with high enough resolution to make one of the monitors display stuff in that location. Just curious.
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Did it show up your neighbor's screen?
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I did not hear screaming from the neighbors. Maybe the window was too small and they did not have glasses on.
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A known issue: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1478765/location-coordinates-on-computer-showing-x-32000-y-32000[^]
And, I think that the minimized state does this because the coords are basically "non-existent" when the window is minimized. It could even be the way that the window is "hidden" when minimized. Meaning that Windows itself considers the window to be at -32000, -32000 in order to hide it to fulfill the functionality that the window is minimized. You know? Meaning that they just throw the window off-screen and show you an icon on the navbar. That may be "how window minimize is done" as a "trick".
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That is about the time you realize you need glasses - to view what seems to ne out of scope to what is really visible - me being an old grump wearing glasses  
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An OF lost the LAST ignition car key...
as side result
the OF ( with lifetime electronics experience ) , has a burning desire to learn all about the " car protection with programmed key " ...
Apparently that is a big national security issue and there is no TECHNICAL info ...
At least Mrs Google won't tell.
Any idea ?
My uneducated guess - Bluetooth ??
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Is there a reason you can't contact the dealer that sold you the car and get a replacement key?
When I picked up my car the keys had a small metal fob with a number stamped into it. This is the code for the key. I put that in the lock box with other ownership papers. The dealer can look up your code number from the manufacturers database and cut you a new key. If the dealer does not have your sales info (or you bought the car privately from a third party) I suppose you could approach a dealer for the car with the VIN number and proof you are the current owner and get them to look up the key code and cut you a new key.
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You have to have a obd2 tool (software) and a generally a subscription from the dealer (manufacturer) to do it. I watch mechanics, South Main Auto and Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics and it generally goes down this way. OEMs went "Oh cool, another way to generate revenue".
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Worrying, but not an argument against open source.
Backdoors in closed source software are only discovered when they are in use.
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It's an argument against big companies relying to OSS projects without sponsoring them. If there's only one maintainer, who's doing it in their spare time, and lots of angry people demanding "urgrentz!!!1!eleventy!" fixes, then the temptation to let someone else take over is going to be very strong.
For example, this support ticket for FFMPEG[^]. Nine days after posting it, some twerp from Microsoft decided to chase it, adding:
Quote: Hi, This is a high priority ticket and the FFmpeg version is currently used in a highly visible product in Microsoft. We have customers experience issues with Caption during Teams Live Event. Please help,
The bug tracker is manned by unpaid volunteers, and Microsoft have refused to sponsor the project, or pay for a support contract. 
(I'd have been inclined to suggest they post their question on one of Microsoft's own myriad support/feedback systems, where getting a non-canned response within nine days would be a miracle! Either that, or tell them to try running sfc /scannow, some variant of dism, and if it still didn't work, to format and reinstall their computer, and create a new user account. Because that's *always* the solution according to Microsoft!)
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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Richard Deeming wrote: For example, this support ticket for FFMPEG[^]. Nine days after posting it, some twerp from Microsoft decided to chase it, adding:
Quote: Hi, This is a high priority ticket and the FFmpeg version is currently used in a highly visible product in Microsoft. We have customers experience issues with Caption during Teams Live Event. Please help,
The bug tracker is manned by unpaid volunteers, and Microsoft have refused to sponsor the project, or pay for a support contract. 
That is appalling.
I can well understand projects moving to not-entirely-open-source licences when companies can't understand paying for software without a price tag.
I like the Clippy artwork that someone added below that:
https://i.imgflip.com/8ldz0m.jpg[^]
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One appropriate response would be a "high priority" for you does not constitute an emergency for me.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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Richard Deeming wrote: and Microsoft have refused to sponsor the project, or pay for a support contract.
To be fair Microsoft has 200,000+ employees. So there certainly is no single person keeping track of this nor making the decisions.
And then as far as it goes who exactly made the request for support from Microsoft and who refused it? I can see some very low level manager just not wanting to fill out the paperwork.
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And it affects/ed a tiny fraction of the Linux world - only "bleeding edge" releases.
If anything, that is an argument for using LTS releases in production.
Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012
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Peter_in_2780 wrote: If anything, that is an argument for using LTS releases in production.
Which is why I only use Debian for Linux servers.
Jeremy Falcon
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If closed is compromised they have a bunch of reasons to never tell you.
It's kind of amazing to me really that they were able to get even this far. They must've had some pretty good misleading commit messages.
It's pretty slick... only building into release balls and not in the actual source. That bit is sexy even if your soul isn't as black as your hat.
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Amarnath S wrote: Yet another case for Closed Source, isn't it?
I would argue the opposite. Closed source backdoors just aren't found. Not like this dude was the first person to ever think of being sneaky.
Edit: I should say, not against closed source for business use (if the business can be trusted), but for stuff like an OS or something the entire world uses (like AI) I think it's great.
Jeremy Falcon
modified 5-Apr-24 14:34pm.
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