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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Most PPE (masks) won't help much against the flu since it's mode of entry is via mucus membranes
The main mode of infection for the flu is via droplets that you breathe. Just like for the Covid.
So yes, a properly used mask would reduce the risk of infection. Not eliminate it.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger
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There are some distinctions that needs to be made here.
When Balboos mentions: W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Most PPE (masks) won't help much against the flu since it's mode of entry is via mucus membranes
I'm assuming PPE means "Personal protective equipment" which I also assume doesn't mean a piece of cloth or a surgical mask, but rather an N95 or better.
Also, they need to be worn properly, not with your nose sticking out above the mask as I can see way too often.
An N95 would help, if you can stand wearing it for a prolonged time. Also assuming you're wearing it properly without leakages.
A surgical mask, or a multi layer piece of cloth mask doesn't protect the bearer, but rather the people around the bearer.
A neck gaiter basically doesn't help at all.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger
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everyone here in America has to wear a mask, some states it is now a law.
if everyone is wearing masks, then how can we have covid spikes again in 5 major US states, more to be added I am sure in the next week?
Masks are not preventing covid, that's why, not even slowing it down.
covid can live on amazon delivery boxes for days, mask or no mask. pikup box, rub eyes, now you have covid.
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Could you explain where in that linked article it stated that '85% of people who had COVID, were wearing their mask all the time'? Or if that is your interpretation, how you came to that conclusion?
I can see nothing in that article that supports your statement. I'm happy to accept that I may have missed something though.
Thanks
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My mistake, not 85%, but 74%
-- page 2 - 71% of case-patients and 74% of controlparticipants reported always using cloth face coverings or other
mask types when in public.
-- page 4 - table - "Always"
The news article reported 85% (71% always wears mask, and 14% sometimes/occasional wears mask), but I could not find the 14% that occasionally wore a mask in the CDC report.
My conclusion to this is that it is not conclusive by any stretch of the imagination that wearing masks stops people from getting sick, and this CDC study proves that.
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Thank you. I believe the actual figure is 70.6 for case patients; the 74.2 number is for the control group (symptomatic patients who tested negative). Whatever though, 70.6 is a big number, and 3.6% difference doesn't fill me with confidence!
Also of interest to me:
- 40.9% of case patients had visited a restaurant, where they would have to remove their mask (compared to 27.7% of the control group).
- 50.8% of case patients had a family member with known Covid-19
There's no way of knowing one way or another from the data, but is it possible that half the people caught Covid-19 in their own home (where they wouldn't wear a mask) and most of the rest caught it in a restaurant or bar, where they have to take their mask off to eat/drink?
Also of note:
- The mask-wearing figures are based on self-report, which is often unreliable (people forget things and sometimes fib).
- A single study doesn't constitute proof in itself, of course. I'd like to see a systematic review or meta analysis, and I'd like to see studies with larger sample sizes.
- I'm a professional software developers and this is not software development, so I don't have the background to interpret the results properly.
Having said all that, it is interesting data, thank you.
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It is interesting to note that as of this week here in the States, we are having massive covid spikes again; at least 5 States that I have read, possibly more. All States that mandate wearing a mask.
I don't think there is a State that has wearing a mask be optional.
So, how can we be having COVID spikes again, if everyone is wearing their masks? and in Europe too: European Countries See Spikes In Coronavirus Cases : NPR[^]
I wear a mask because I am told too. I would NOT wear a mask if it was my option.
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Who knows. Maybe they are a complete waste of time. Maybe things would be even worse without them.
This seems to be becoming a minority view these days, but I'm just going to trust the expert advice. It may turn out to be wrong/ politically motivated or whatever, but it doesn't seem too much of a sacrifice to me.
It's not all bad. The other day I had a big spot on my chin, and the mask covered it up nicely.
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It's not that the mask protects the wearer so much as that it protects everybody else. ( From those that don't know that they are carrying.) So wear the damned thing to protect your Grandma ( or, in my case, grandniece... )
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Well a look around the web and (1) many sites cite your statement so it is true - and also the contact, as well.
Various comments went from ignoring the contact method (which even recently was touted as important on media) through 'some thing it may be spread as an aerosol' as an alternative to the contact methods and finally some ignore the contact methods altogether.
Well - by even simple logic, a moist sneeze would spread the flu. Just breath in through your nose, and of course, settling on your eyes. In that way I absolutely stand corrected.
What bothers me about the whole thing is that there's far too much "flexibility" in reporting.
Eg: some months ago it was noted that persons with blood type A are more likely to get a severe case of COVID - and then that sort of disappeared. Last night, however, the report noted that those with blood type O are less likely to have a severe reaction and that (in the US) type A is the second most prevalent blood type. As seen in the US, government controlled organizations run by appointees can modify reality to suit the need of those who appointed them, so
common sense puts your post as valid but the recent state of affairs and variations in the attribution lead me to think that it's being changed. Hopefully, math, chemistry, and physics will not fall pray to this feeling that appeasement is a valid data point in a study.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I don't see how it can have anything to do with Covid, whether or not someone has an immune reaction to someone elses red bloodcells.
There must be a thousands of other immune reactions that has more impact than that.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger
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As I recall, it was hypothesized that the antibodies in non-A blood recognized the COVID virus and attacked it.
I didn't hear any hypothesis about why the O group do better. Remember, there's always a possibility of an accidental immune response (or lack of one).
As I recall, barely, people who descended from survivors of the Black Plague had a high resistance to HIV/Aids.[^]
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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And it's blood group immune response that, hypothetically, is going after the CORONA virus - like the "anti-A" but the study that talked about "A" being more susceptible didn't have enough B or AB in the cohort to make any claims. It would be an interesting adjunct.
As for whether plague is a virus or bacterium is beside the point: apparently they can determine the descendence.
Nature's full of overlaps: most insects that specialize do so because they've adapted to natural plant toxins and other insects haven't. They eat what the can - not because they prefer it but because it's what they can eat. Why do I say this. Because quite accidentally, these 'toxins' are also what give herbs, spices, vegetables, etc. their flavors. Yes- it's a bit of a peripheral topic but the point is that natural selection sometimes has side effects. Mammals may (or may not) be attracted to smells and tastes of evolved insect repellents and toxins.
Or better, cowpox gave immunity to smallpox for milk maids who caught it, and in fact helped Jenner launch the concept of vaccination.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I'm always getting the seasonal flu shot; it's not a perfect vaccine, but it reduce the chance of getting it.
I'd rather be phishing!
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Maximilien wrote: it reduce the chance of getting it.
Actually there is no way to prove that. You're "hoping" it helps. 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Not until after the flu season is over, that's when you can summarize how efficient it was.
It's usually ok-ish, sometimes bad and very seldom really good.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger
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Just ignore me. I'm being pedantic.
Even afterwards, you can't tell. There is no possible way to know if you hadn't gotten the vaccine that you would have then gotten the flu.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Well, yes.
The knowledge on how efficient it is for you personally just isn't there. There is no morally acceptable way to find out for real.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger
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ZurdoDev wrote: Actually there is no way to prove that
Has already been proven, if it weren't, then it would be called "alternative medicine". It lowers the chance you get it by 40%, and if you do still get sick, it won't be as bad as without the shot.
I get it for free, every year.
Also, you can't get the flu from the shot itself.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Has already been proven,
How so? How can one possibly prove that if you did not get the vaccine you would have gotten the flu. Of course you can't. It's not possible. Don't believe anyone that tells you otherwise.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: and if you do still get sick, it won't be as bad as without the shot.
 That's not what I've heard people say that actually experienced this.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: I get it for free, every year.
So you're the societal drain, huh? 
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Also, you can't get the flu from the shot itself.
So says the CDC.
Quote: Side effects from the nasal spray flu vaccine may include: runny nose, wheezing, headache, vomiting, muscle aches, fever, sore throat and cough.
So, basically the flu.
Oh, and then there is this little bit, Quote: Serious allergic reactions to flu vaccines are very rare. If they do occur, it is usually within a few minutes to a few hours after vaccination. While these reactions can be life-threatening, effective treatments are available.
So, you may not get the flu from the vaccine but you might die from it. 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: How so? How can one possibly prove that if you did not get the vaccine you would have gotten the flu. Of course you can't. It's not possible. Don't believe anyone that tells you otherwise.
You can't prove that for a single person; but the effectiveness of vaccines has been proven. Look up polio.
ZurdoDev wrote: That's not what I've heard people say that actually experienced this.
What people "say" about that is not relevant; statistics show it is. You come with hearsay here to deny statistics? 
ZurdoDev wrote: So you're the societal drain, huh?
I'm rather expensive to keep alive, yes 
ZurdoDev wrote: So says the CDC.
No, peer-reviewed science, from multiple countries; that's why most babies in developed countries get a mix of vaccines already. Of course, the great ZurdoDev knows better than all those scientists and basic biology that is thought in schools, because "it was on Facebook".
ZurdoDev wrote: So, you may not get the flu from the vaccine but you might die from it.
You're trying to blow that out of proportions. All of my medication is "dangerous"; but they help most people, while very, very few experience side effects. You're kind of insane to point to a minor risk in a cure. Even painkillers from the groceries come with a list of risks.
Go complain on Twatter or FB where people actually may believe your bullshit.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: You're trying to blow that out of proportions. All of my medication is "dangerous"; but they help most people, while very, very few experience side effects. You're kind of insane to point to a minor risk in a cure. Even painkillers from the groceries come with a list of risks.
Go complain on Twatter or FB where people actually may believe your bullshit.
Wow are you emotional. I made a factual statement copied off of the CDC site about how the vaccine could kill you and then you jumped to a conclusion that is so far off it's just hilarious to see how your brain works.
Sounds like you're taking way too many drugs.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: Wow are you emotional. I made a factual statement copied off of the CDC site about how the vaccine could kill you
I don't give a f*** about a "CDC"; we don't have that in Europe. Not my problem.
ZurdoDev wrote: Sounds like you're taking way too many drugs.
I am. From painkillers and sleeping pills to immunosuppressants and flu-vaccines. And both painkillers and sleeping pills stopped working, so sometimes, I'm awake for five consecutive days, wondering if there's really something crawling on that wall.
Still, drugged up as I am, you still came back without arguments, just another personal attack. You can with the same you had; nothing, just some hearsay and no evidence that we could verify.
So; here be drugged me, borderline insane, and still coming with better arguments than you. And obviously winning the argument. How does that feel, knowing what your "educasion" cost?
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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