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That's the same kind of attitude as, "I don't care if somebody's black, as long as they don't live in my neighbourhood, swim in my pool, send their kids to the same school, or dare to exist within my field of vision". You're obviously not OK with homosexuals in any capacity, so at least have the guts to admit it. You won't look a saint simply by vilifying me.
And what 'lifestyle' are you referring to? I told you precisely nothing about how I live by that post, and my 'lifestyle' exists solely within your own simpleton prejudices and imagination.
Your phraseology suggests that you subscribe to the belief that homosexuality is a choice. It doesn't surprise me, certainly - it's easier to hate somebody for their choices rather than for something intrinsic. It is, however, completely unsupported by, you know, reality, so you're currently on the same moral level as misogynists and racists.
'You straight folk' may not feel the need to tell anybody, which for the sake of argument I will assume despite it being untrue, but that's just because you've so carefully engineered what is 'normal' and what is 'abnormal' that you never have to.
I find it unusual and telling that you think I'm "throwing it in your face". Are you a delicate dew-covered flower, or are you simply determined to feel persecuted? Why do you insist that I was directing it at you, anyway?
I could level the exact same criticisms towards your obsession with weapons, but instead I just avoid reading those tedious messages, and I certainly don't tell you to not post them. See, I'm not one of those hypocrites that support freedom of speech only as long as it parallels my personal views.
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Ravel, I, for one, already new you were gay from other postings you've made where it was clear where you stand. You didn't need to "announce" it.
By drawing attention to yourself, you're trying to force everyone to accept you and daring anyone to object. People, (and I'm sure even you), object to being forced to do anything. It's in our nature and goes against the natural gift of free will. That's what most people object to, not to your being gay (disregarding those who think it a "sin"). Note that's what John objected to, your "announcement", not your being gay.
As for whether or not being gay is a choice or not, I think there's a difference between "being" gay and "acting" gay. For example, there are many people who steal, but not all those who steal are kleptomaniacs[^].
In the same sort of way, while I believe there are some people, perhaps even you, who are biologically "gay", there are others, perhaps many more, who are shall we say "socially" gay. For the latter, it's more of a choice, but they may not feel so because of their circumstances or experiences.
Either way, while people may not be able to choose how the "are", people do choose how they act. I know this for a fact because I have friends in my religion who are "gay", but do not act on their impulses because of their beliefs. While it is difficult for them, they take it as a challenge and as an opportunity to become better, stronger, more vibrant people. They see their situation as a gift.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun
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ahmed zahmed wrote: You didn't need to "announce" it.
But you don't know the reason that I said it.
ahmed zahmed wrote: Note that's what John objected to, your "announcement", not your being gay.
He used the words 'abhorrent' and 'freakish', and I don't think they were directed towards the fact of my posting. You may think I was being belligerent, but John Simmons was positively clamouring to offend me. He didn't succeed, though, in spite of my possible overreaction.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote: don't know the reason
No, not entirely, but I remain sure that part of the reason was your need to feel accepted.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote: You may think I was being belligerent
I don't know what I said to give you that impression, but I don't think you were being belligerent at all. Forceful? Yes. Belligerent? No.
Just know Ravel, that I do accept you (as far as I can anyway, after all you're just some anonymous person on the web). I accepted you before your "announcement" and feel no differently now.
If I were to meet you in person, I would hope we could be friends.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote: He used the words 'abhorrent' and 'freakish
Yes he did. But, if I remember correctly, it was the lifestyle he was addressing, not you personally. But, I understand it's hard not to take it personally. But, then again, maybe he meant it personally. I don't really know. I just prefer not to think so negatively.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote: positively clamouring to offend me. He didn't succeed
Perhaps he was. Being offended is a choice. I'm glad you're mature enough not to take offense. More mature than I'd likely have been if I were in your shoes.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun
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I admit, I overreacted to John Simmons, and perhaps the original post was inappropriate. But it was not my wish to belabour the issue or draw excessive attention to it, which is why I skipped any heartfelt personal testimony.
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Who cares? 
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The NYT[^] came up with 3 proposed land swap maps with 3.7-4.7% of the area in question changing hands. (For reference in 08 the negotiating positions were 6.3% and 1.9%.) Even the most modest of the proposals (3) ends up with farcically undefendable borders; and while the map doesn't show Palestinian communities the most likely reason for some of the connections looking just wide enough to hold roads is snaking between them; so I doubt that bumping the size of the swap areas up to apply something approaching sanity to the borders would be feasible without massive dislocations.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Funny how everyone thinks they know the best way to solve that little issue... Shouldn't the rest of the world just stay out of the way and let those countries solve their own problems?
It's really none of our business.
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Someone should explain to the palestinians that the term "compromise" implies give-and-take wherein one does not get everything they demand.
Alas, seeing how Gaza turned out (when Israel evacuated its citizens) leads me to believe that the problem is going to remain intractable until the children of the West Bank and Gaze are not taught hate.
Imagine the mentality (i.e., brainwashing) necessary to cause the destruction of state-of-the-art and highly profitable greenhouses left behind (in Gaza) by the Israelis for no other reason then they were left behind by the Israelis.
The real start of the palestinian's problems came when Egypt made peace with Israel - the Arab world needed new canon fodder.
Probably already too political for the Lounge.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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You're missing my point entirely.
Let them deal with it themselves... Let's just wall off the entire region, cut off all supply lines in and out aside from people emigrating, and tell them to let us (i.e. the rest of the world) know when they're finished fighting.
It all goes back to the worlds of St. George.... Carlin.
"Millions of people killed because they gave the wrong answer to the 'god' question...
Do you believe in god?
No.
*poof* Dead.
Do you believe in god?
Yes.
Do you believe in MY god?
No.
*poof* Dead.
My god has a bigger **** than your god!"
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Ian Shlasko wrote: Shouldn't the rest of the world just stay out of the way
If the rest of the world had done that Israel would not exist today.
Good advice. Shame it wasn't followed in the 30's.
Disclaimer:
I am not anti semitic, I am anti creating an artifical country thousands of years after the tribe that might have had some sort of right to the land left, and was created by fundamentalist Christians with the sole intent of paving the way for the second coming. And if you don't belive that, then do some reading up on the matter.
==============================
Nothing to say.
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Here we go again; anti-semitism thinly disguised as anti-Israel.
Doesn't matter how or why Israel exists: it does, deal with it cos it ain't going anywhere.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
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digital man wrote: anti-semitism
Proof, or it never happened.
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The Gazans are Semites too.
Semites are not just the Jews.[^]
------------------------------------
I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
CCC Link[ ^]
Trolls[ ^]
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Not just the Gazans you "anti-Semite". There are three flavors of Semites.
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From the article you cite: The term "anti-Semitic" (or "anti-Semite") overwhelmingly refers to Jews only. Stop trying to muddy the waters: you knwo very well what it means.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
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Yeah, but it was, and wishing it wasn't doesn't affect the position now.
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Actually it can easilly affect the position today. International pressure for the afore mentioned reasons bought it into existence. International pressure can equally change that too. As it has done in many other countires.
==============================
Nothing to say.
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None of those will work long term whilst there is a split state straddling Israel. Better to give away more of the West Bank and take back all of Gaza. In any case, it won't matter what Israel offers - it will get rejected. Big waste of time. Might be easier to relocate Israel to West Texas.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
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digital man wrote: it won't matter what Israel offers - it will get rejected
Preach it brother...Those peace loving Israeli governments need some love.
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Bassam Saoud wrote: Preach it brother...Those peace loving Israeli governments need some love.
Seriously? Look back at what has been offered, time and again. Each and every time it gets rejected including when Arafat was offered everything he asked for and still rejected it.
I realise you are being a trifle sarcastic but you highlight an important issue: Israel's bloody awful PR versus the slick and rather well oiled Palestinian PR machine.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
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The statement that peace has not been achieved because Palestanians keep rejecting proposals is simply false. If that is the case :
1- Israel can simply implement the UN resolution of the 1967 border line and have UN deployed on its border.
2- How do you explain continous exapnsion of settlements
3- Right wing rederic
The palestanian issue revolves around three main topics:
1- Land
2- Return of refugees
3- an independent state
UN resolution indicating the 1967 war as border is a compromise the palestanians are willing to take along with their most right wing redicals. Arab countries has supported that intitiative.
All the above are technical issues. The reality of the matter is that neither side wants peace. It is only plan b to their plan a.
modified on Monday, September 12, 2011 11:35 AM
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1: Why on earth would they do that? Tell me the last time a country got invaded, beat back the invaders, took some land and then had to give it back??? In any case, even if they did that it couldn't happen without both sides reaching an agreement. Again, Arafat was offered everything he asked for and still rejected it.
2: There are stupid people on both sides.
3: I'm not sure what 'rederic' means. Let's assume 'rhetoric'. Perhaps: but I'm a great believer in peace; I just see no way for that to happen in the current context. I alos belive that if someone says they want to kill you then that is a really stupid time to lay down your weapons and hold out an olive branch.
Whatever it is that the Palestinians want they won't get it unless and until they acknowledge the right of Israel to exist and to unequivocally denounce violence. Oh and to stop threatening to drive all jews into the Med.
You are correct that this is not an easy issue and nor is a solution going to be easy to come by. If I had my way I'd move Israel completely out of the Middle East. So what if there are some ancient sites and some holy places. Are they really worth all the trouble to keep them (for either side)? Not going to happen, of course since I can't see where else they could go. Maybe north of Perth in Oz or New Mexico? Peace is a nice dream.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
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Bassam Saoud wrote: The statement that peace has not been achieved because Palestanians keep
rejecting proposals is simply false
I have seen nothing that supports that. Nor the rest of your comments.
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