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GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
G2BAM25-Jun-19 3:01
professionalG2BAM25-Jun-19 3:01 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
Vlad Tudorache25-Jun-19 1:54
memberVlad Tudorache25-Jun-19 1:54 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
SeattleC++25-Jun-19 5:58
memberSeattleC++25-Jun-19 5:58 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
Vlad Tudorache25-Jun-19 7:30
memberVlad Tudorache25-Jun-19 7:30 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
SeattleC++25-Jun-19 9:49
memberSeattleC++25-Jun-19 9:49 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
Vlad Tudorache26-Jun-19 1:44
memberVlad Tudorache26-Jun-19 1:44 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
Kirk Wood25-Jun-19 2:06
memberKirk Wood25-Jun-19 2:06 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
charlieg25-Jun-19 2:43
membercharlieg25-Jun-19 2:43 
It's an interesting discussion. I believe the industry *could* do a better job policing itself; however the problem domain is so broad and complex that I think it's nigh impossible. That said, the original poster shot his argument in the foot when he cited the Boeing 737 Max issue - this was not a software failure but a systems engineering failure (IMHO - I've not read the IEEE writeup, next on my list).

You do make an excellent point about people who claim to be programmers, and all they know how to do is drive a keyboard. I trace this ROT back to the .COM era when so many people were slamming web sites that anyone who knew html was called a "programmer". I believe this cancer still plagues the industry.

But when you think about how we develop software today, I'm not sure we can really corral the cat herd. How are you going to certify all of the 3rd party software used in today's applications? Open source? I think the system would grind to a halt trying to use the "professional" model across the industry.

The real problem, and some have alluded to it, is cost. A long time ago, I worked as a pure EE designing circuit boards. One of my mentors was an old salt by the name of Frosty - tall gangly guy, very passionate about his work, licensed professional engineer. He had come up with a design and submitted the paperwork to management. They sent it back, as he had not applied his PE stamp on it. He told them to pound sand - that cost money if they were willing to pay. They didn't, so he didn't. It was an interesting standoff (lots of yelling and profanity).

If you want someone to accept risk, it's going to cost you. Boeing accepts this risk and essentially indemnifies its employees. If this were demanded of me, I'd double my rate and purchase a LOT of insurance. Just think about how many times you've been told by management to "ship it, we'll fix it later."

As for pensions, etc, that's easily handled by a simple professional organization. Given your age (and mine), I suggest looking into AARP or Amac (American retirement groups). Big Grin | :-D
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...

"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759

GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
Ryan Peden25-Jun-19 3:24
staffRyan Peden25-Jun-19 3:24 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
SeattleC++25-Jun-19 6:32
memberSeattleC++25-Jun-19 6:32 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
q1213q25-Jun-19 3:30
memberq1213q25-Jun-19 3:30 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
Andrew L. Meador25-Jun-19 3:53
memberAndrew L. Meador25-Jun-19 3:53 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
gggustafson25-Jun-19 6:56
professionalgggustafson25-Jun-19 6:56 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
Andrew L. Meador25-Jun-19 8:14
memberAndrew L. Meador25-Jun-19 8:14 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
Vlad Tudorache25-Jun-19 7:58
memberVlad Tudorache25-Jun-19 7:58 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
Gerry Schmitz25-Jun-19 8:16
mveGerry Schmitz25-Jun-19 8:16 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
Andrew L. Meador25-Jun-19 9:23
memberAndrew L. Meador25-Jun-19 9:23 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
obermd25-Jun-19 3:59
memberobermd25-Jun-19 3:59 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
SeattleC++25-Jun-19 6:36
memberSeattleC++25-Jun-19 6:36 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
gggustafson25-Jun-19 6:55
professionalgggustafson25-Jun-19 6:55 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
Gerry Schmitz25-Jun-19 8:19
mveGerry Schmitz25-Jun-19 8:19 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
Andrew L. Meador25-Jun-19 8:44
memberAndrew L. Meador25-Jun-19 8:44 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
Gerry Schmitz25-Jun-19 9:10
mveGerry Schmitz25-Jun-19 9:10 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
Andrew L. Meador25-Jun-19 10:04
memberAndrew L. Meador25-Jun-19 10:04 
GeneralRe: Call for a Professional Programmers' Association Pin
Gerry Schmitz25-Jun-19 12:23
mveGerry Schmitz25-Jun-19 12:23 

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