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Chris Maunder wrote: Canada removed the long form a couple of years ago and is now paying the price of trying to pilot the ship half blind
I think this ship being piloted half-blind has more to do with the politicians we (repeatedly) elect than the removal of the long form census.
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The census is authorized in the Constitution, which makes it one of the few things that the federal government does that is actually authorized.
For the purposes of the Constitution, the census could be satisfied (if memory serves) by two questions:
- How many people live here?
- How many are legally eligible to vote?
All the rest is none of their business. But most give government a pass even when it does things that would land others in prison, so the census is rather lame by comparison.
If I received the long form, it would go into the shredder unless my humor was in fine form, in which case I'd have a lot of fun.
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While the guv'mint is required to do the census, no individual is required to participate.
And, most likely, for anyone who is "missed" there is another who gets counted twice. I know my little sister was counted twice in 1990, but that's good, she's a nice person.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: no individual is required to participate.
13 U.S. Code § 221 but the 1984 Sentencing Reform Act increased the penalties for refusal to answer or purposefully answering falsely to a $5000 minimum (and still up to 60 days in jail). Now, realistically, unless the Census Bureau shows up at your house and you still refuse to answer, I highly doubt this would be enforced.
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Jon McKee wrote: doubt this would be enforced.
And how would they know? But mainly, there's no requirement that everyone be home.
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Yea, realistically if you just never answered the door I doubt they could do anything. Can't prove that they successfully contacted you so can't prove that you refused.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: And how would they know?
Because they mail a code to your house.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Jon McKee wrote: Now, realistically, unless the Census Bureau shows up at your house and you still refuse to answer, I highly doubt this would be enforced.
Of course it won't.
According to them, you don't exist, so they won't be able to see you.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: According to them, you don't exist,
Try not paying your taxes--I think you'll quickly find out they know you exist...
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: no individual is required to participate.
Not what it says on the envelope.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Don't believe everything you read.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: Don't believe everything you read.
Check. 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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I fill it out and do so accurately. To be paranoid about it and refuse or fill in incorrect data is just stupid. 
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I agree. But I find it very interesting how often people complain about data being collected about them but so far the census doesn't seem to bother anyone. 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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I've yet to see a government census as invasive as anything advertisers insist upon, so my paranoia is still targeted at the latter only.
(but then I've never received the long-form version, and that one no longer exists in Canada)
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I always fill it out and give accurate answers.
and every time it happens, I'm always disappointed that I don't get the long version.
I'd rather be phishing!
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I am Spartacus!
I wonder how many people have done that.
And can you USian nutters still enter "Jedi" as your religion?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Quote: Pass me a bread knife!
You're the one looking for the bread knife - and you call us nutters? 
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I'm not looking for one. It's right there -- hand it over, and assume the position.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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The data collected is used for all sort of important issues. Not only statistically but to determine where and what resources are required in your area, (schooling, hospitals etc) so it may well feel intrusive, but it is ultimately used for your benefit, so suck it up and be a big boy an fill it in properly.
A Fine is a Tax for doing something wrong
A Tax is a Fine for doing something good.
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RossMW wrote: The data collected is used for all sort of important issues.
Sure it is. I find it funny how that's true for tons of other data collected about us but everyone else cries about it. I'm surprised how many criers are OK with the census data.
RossMW wrote: it may well feel intrusive,
Not to me. I don't care who knows what my birthday is.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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All you have to specify is how many people live at the address. Nothing else is required.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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In Norway, population information has "for ages" been continously updated in electronic registers. Every childbirth is reported, and if you haven't registred a name for the kid within a certain period, you receive a reminder from the register that you must file a name for the baby.
Other registers are going all digital as well. About fifteen years ago, I was stopped in a routine check for drunk driving (not because my driving was dubious; it was a general screening), and it took me a few seconds to dig up my driver's license. Before I found it, the police officer told me: "Don't worry; we've got it here, over the radio. Everything OK". Today, you don't need a physical driver's license at all.
It is the same with lots of other public archives (and private/commercial ones as well). I am not perfectly happy with it; it makes us very dependent on network techology being 100% stable. And datacenter technology. Besides, some excuses for it are questionable from a privacy point of view: E.g. the Norwegian state provides some state support for religious coommunities based on their membership count. Churches were required to submit membership lists electronically, and there were cases of people requesting support in up to five different churches! I very strongly question the very idea of the state supporting religious societies (it can only be understood because we had a tax financed 'state church' up until a few years ago), and the authorities demand for electronic lists did reveal what could certainly be called fraud. But my real worry is thinking of how the authorities in central Europe in the late 1930s could have used such a register. Or some future power may use it.
We have, maybe for nostalgic/romantic reasons, retained some "census-like" activities: It is more like a nationwide gallup poll. Once every ten years, they select some aspect they would like to know more about. Like, "The official register tells that you are living here - but are you living most of your life somewhere else, e.g. because you are a student or commuter?"
The census is all like "non-essential information", "things we are curious about". I do not know about US cencuses, but I suspect that is to a far greater degree is a real collection of basic information about the population, because the authorities do not know.
I think that there is a lot of information about me that is nobody's business - not even the the authorities. But I cannot keep secret where I live, how may kids I have, and how old I am. The authorities must have that information, e.g. to pay me my old age pension when that day comes. Why should they have me report it every ten years? They might just as well keep an always-updated archive of it. Then we don't 'need' the census.
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Member 7989122 wrote: Before I found it, the police officer told me: "Don't worry; we've got it here, over the radio. Everything OK". Today, you don't need a physical driver's license at all.
So... If I drive another person's car... the sue will be sent to him? Nice 
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Not quite. I gave him my "person number" (functionally similar to the US Social Security Number, but is independent of Social Security). He got my photo and signature on the screen of his device, and recognized me from the photo.
For drunk driving, which car you drive is irrelevant. You breathe into this meter, and if the reading is above a certain limit, you are taken to the side for a blood sample, which is used as the evidence. The breathing test is just a quick way to check you out. The police always asks for your driver's license, whatever the reason for stopping you.
Even for automatic speed control, they cannot fine the car owner; they must be able to identify the driver from the photo. The license plates of the car is just an aid for the police to more easily find the driver. As a car owner, you may receive a request: "Who was driving your car at this and that time?", but if you do not know (or pretend that you do not know), but the photo does not show your face, they cannot make you responsible for the speeding.
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