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OriginalGriff wrote: stocks and shares may go up and down (in small or wild swings) apparently randomly, but probably because of events both beyond your control and unknown to you ...
I know, and right now... even more. It is like a damned randomized roller coaster
M.D.V. 
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Nelek wrote: It is like a damned randomized roller coaster
Also known as "Bitcoin" 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
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No way... Bitcoins are one of the absolute No-Go for me.
M.D.V.
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Is that because it's a damned randomized roller coaster used by criminals?
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
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I lost some money there 
I've actually found some source code from Bitcoin.
var config = configuration.Get<BitcoinConfig>();
Random rnd = new Random();
int currentRate = rnd.Next(config.MaximumRate);
return currentRate; This code is called every few seconds.
The config.MaximumRate is sometimes set by some guy based on how he's feeling that day.
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Yeah, I'm assuming they won't take more than a few € per transaction, but I'm still figuring that out.
I'm using the +500 app and so far I've got mixed feelings about it.
It was easy for me to buy and sell, I can find my open and closed positions, orders, all kinds of instruments with nice graphs, etc.
But now that I've closed a position I can't see what my initial investment was and for what I sold it.
I can see my profit, the opening and close rates, values and times, but I'm not sure what they all mean.
So I can see I've made a profit of let's say €10, but I can't see if that's on an investment of €1 or €1000.
I suspect the opening rate is what I've bought it for, but the closing rate is not what I sold it for because opening rate - closing rate is far less than my profit...
And so I'm learning as I go 
One thing kind of bothers me though, I got this app because it would've been available in Dutch, but so far I haven't found it and now I'm trading in English.
It makes it hard to talk about this with Dutch people who only know the Dutch terms, because I don't know the translations.
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I do it through a bank, I have control over the orders and I get pretty nice and detailed reporting. At the beginning it was a bit confusing, but you get it fast, the important things is to know the differences between the available type of orders. Once you get that is easier.
I am not a broker, and I will never be one. I don't know why / when the stocks reach / are going to reach an inflection point (ok, sometimes is obvious but you know what I mean). But as you say... if it is something you don't need for living and you are aware that you can loose it in one second... why not?
M.D.V. 
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I started off with a demo account.
Thought I'd put some demo money in oil.
Next day, over €600 (demo, argh!) profit!
Open the news, Trump made some announcement that he was going to put tariffs on oil to keep the price up or some such.
That explained it
The opposite can happen just as well and sometimes it makes no sense whatsoever.
I remember Facebook going to the stock market.
Everyone wanted a share, everyone was optimistic, closed at minus more than you'd expect
Back in the day, when I was still in elementary school, my parents invested some ƒ100 (guilder, back in those days) in the internet funds or some such.
A LOT of people lost money when that bubble burst (ƒ100 was like two years allowance for me!).
Luckily, my parents just wanted to teach me a lesson and it didn't affect my weekly allowance
I'm also still at -50% on Bitcoin
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I have used long existent companies that are local but with worldwide market (no cars). I won some hundreds and now I am in red due to the drops of last weeks, I didn't panic sell. Just letting it there, giving time to recover. As already stated in several times, not needed money for living.
I am not going to put more money (although many people say now is the moment), when (IF) I get back to green, then I will see again. Not in hurry.
M.D.V.
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That's how to do it (well, apart from the buying high and not buying low ), don't panic sell and take losses (unless you're worried a company will go bankrupt and you'll lose it all).
I'm doing the same with my Bitcoin, let's just wait until it turns around.
And if I have reason to believe it'll never get to where it was I'll sell it with loss and spend my remaining money somewhere else.
And that's why you shouldn't do this with money you need 
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Sander Rossel wrote: And that's why you shouldn't do this with money you need
exactly
M.D.V.
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A great many of the brokerage firms (in the US) now allow trades for no fee at all - at least a couple of hundred a month. Day traders will exceed this and pay up. Trading firms can make money, anyway, depending upon how they place your trade.
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: A great many of the brokerage firms (in the US) now allow trades for no fee at all - at least a couple of hundred a month.
Only for locals, being in Germany all had fees (at least what I found)
M.D.V.
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Also, in USA (I don't think that's where Sander is, but for others) short-term capital gains are more heavily taxed than long-term (to encourage investment, I guess).
Back when I started investing many years ago, I just looked at the Berkshire Hathaway holdings, found subsets of that I felt comfortable with, then purchased those companies. Figured if it's good enough for Warren Buffett, it oughta be good enough for me.
Just let the dividends plow back into buying more. I think I've done reasonably well over the years. Like Sander, I've only invested extra money, so I don't track returns that closely.
My goal is someday to live on the dividends (i.e., start taking them as cash instead of reinvesting). We'll see.
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agolddog wrote:
My goal is someday to live on the dividends (i.e., start taking them as cash instead of reinvesting). We'll see.
A bit contradictory... don't you think?
To live on the dividends, you need a lot of them, what would imply that you have a lot of money (one only should invest what is not needed for living) so you wouldn't need that for living...
Jokes apart... I know what you mean. I don't expect to do that much. But if I can upgrade the holidays with one or two nice extras, buy something I would like to have but don't need (and hence very low in the list) or similars. Then I am happy enough.
At least I see it that way, one invest money that is not needed for living. And use the potential benefits from it to things that are not needed for living, but that make the living nicer  
M.D.V.
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Nelek,
Good point!
Like anything, diligence plays a big key. When I first started out a million years ago (back in the days when I mailed checks to companies to participate in DRIPs), I had a simple plan that seemed to work out pretty well:
Each paycheck, subtract out from my new checking balance my "minimum safety net cash".
Next, subtract out any credit card balances/upcoming bills like auto insurance.
If there's still money left, invest it. I generally split it between extra on my house payment, and investing in these DRIPs.
It wasn't until (too many) years later that I figured out I should designate some of that extra money to a "fun" account--money for trips, going out, whatever.
Anyway, for anyone just setting out, that's a guideline I'd put out there to tailor to your needs.
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I am relative new in this kind of investments (less than a year experience in trading). But I know where my priorities are
M.D.V.
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Day trading is probably the easiest way to lose all your money. While you may have made a quick profit, the averages are against you. Think of stock investment as long term, minimum 10 years, and you are likely to do better. Unless you have time to research companies in detail it is usually better to go for trusts. I don't know about Holland, but here in the UK we have Investment Trusts and Unit Trusts. Both are good vehicles for long-term investment but you still need to do your own research. There is plenty of information on various investment shop websites: Hargreaves Lansdown[^] is a good one. Even if you don't want to use them to invest, they have lots of useful research and information.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote: While you may have made a quick profit, the averages are against you.
I know!
In fact, I know someone who lost a lot of money (he could afford to lose) that way.
He was sure to remind me when I told him I was going to trade too.
I don't want to do this for the (quick) money, but for the experience.
And hopefully I'll make a profit (or a minimum loss) at the end
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Richard MacCutchan wrote: it is usually better to go for trusts
Ummm, remember Woodford?
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Yes, I invested in that so lost some money. I also invested in many others which returned a decent profit. Investment is like fortune telling, you can never be certain of the outcome. If you don't like risk then put the money in the bank - at 0.5% interest you are not even keeping up with inflation.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote: at 0.5% interest
How lucky...
Here is 0,15%  for 6 months
0,5% for a year (and not everywhere)
M.D.V.
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Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
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good luck. have fun with this.
I pay a company to manage my portfolios and accounts, but I sometimes wish I did it myself.
As for actual "day trading", I don't think I have the stomach for that.
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Thanks!
Slacker007 wrote: I pay a company to manage my portfolios and accounts, but I sometimes wish I did it myself.
Why not both?
Take some money you can spare and give it a shot yourself.
Never regret the things you didn't do
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Two tips/notes:
- Stocks go down further and faster than they go up.
- it's not a level playing field at all: large firms can do things you cannot and probably (at best) consider you a donor.
- In reality, it's just a crap-shoot; the worlds biggest gambling casino
Eventually you learn your place in this food chain (and it's not an admirable one, guppy), exuberance is replaced by shock: Then you decide what to do. More of the same or mutual funds.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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