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Okay, what I am going to try and do is reverse engineer Serbian. What triggered this insanity? Check out this thread[^].
This is a bit like the French scholar Jean-François Champollion decyphering the Rosetta Stone[^]. Well, maybe not in that league - But if it works it will be an achievement for me.
The starting point are some phrases in Serbian that have the English translation next to them.
Sotona iz Redmonda == Satan from Redmond
Evo ti sajt jednog mog prijatelja, pa se raspravljaj sa njim do mile volje == Here is a web site of a friend of mine - you can discuss this issue with him as much as you wish
Satana iz Redmonda i njegovi dugi rogovi == Satan from Redmond and its long horns
This is Redmond == Ovo je Redmond
I am from Redmond == Ja sam iz Redmonda
I was in Redmond == Bio sam u Redmondu
I == Ja. However, in Serbian, I is often implicit.
So the above is my starting point.
?? iz == from
?? sam == a conjugation of "to be"
?? u == in
?? prijatelja == friend
?? -a -u on the end of a noun is connected with the verb tense??
?? i == and
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar
Coming soon: The Second EuroCPian Event
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
iz == from
Correct
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
sam == a conjugation of "to be"
Correct
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
u == in
Correct
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
prijatelja == friend
Almost correct - prijatelj == friend
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
-a -u on the end of a noun is connected with the verb tense??
Not in this case. These inflections are connected with a word usage. Ie:
He is a friend - On je prijatelj
I see a friend - Vidim prijatelja
I tell it to a friend - Govorim prijatelju
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
i == and
Correct
I am impressed, Colin.
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May I join in?
I am also a linguist and I know a bit of Russian which might help me unravel some of these mysteries...
Let's see
"on" = he
vidim = "see" (first person conjugation)
govorim = "speak/tell/talk" (first person conjugation)
Note: Interesting to see how it's first person singular, not plural... In Russian it's "vidim" for the "we" form.
"a" = accusative ending (direct object)
"u" = dative ending (indirect object)
I don't know if these change with different types of words, but I'm assuming they don't.
I have a symbiotic relationship with my computer.
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dacris wrote:
"on" = he
Correct
dacris wrote:
vidim = "see" (first person conjugation)
Correct, although I would rather translate it as "I see"
dacris wrote:
govorim = "speak/tell/talk" (first person conjugation)
Correct, with the same remark as above.
dacris wrote:
"a" = accusative ending (direct object)
Correct
dacris wrote:
"u" = dative ending (indirect object)
Correct
dacris wrote:
don't know if these change with different types of words, but I'm assuming they don't.
Actually, they do - it depends on gender.
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
I am impressed
Thanks. Although the real trick is if I can form a valid sentence myself.
Here are my guesses:
Vidim == I see
From Latin: Veni Vidi Vici - I came, I saw, I conquered.
?? -im == First person present tense verb ending
Does "Venim" exist? I come
Does "Vicim" exist? I conquer
?? -a on the end of prijatelj denotes my or mine??
?? I see my friend == Vidim prijatelja ??
?? -u on the end of prijatelj denotes it??
?? Ovo == this ??
?? On == He ??
?? je == a conjugation of the verb "to be" ??
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar
Coming soon: The Second EuroCPian Event
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Vidim == I see
Correct
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
-im == First person present tense verb ending
Correct - although it can also be "-em" or "-am"
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
?? -a on the end of prijatelj denotes my or mine??
No. It denotes an accusative use. In Serbian, it would be pretty unusual to explicitely mention "my" in a construct like this.
You can say:
"Vidim mog prijatelja" - I see my friend (my - mog), but in most cases you would say:
"Vidim prijatelja" - I see a friend.
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
I see my friend == Vidim prijatelja ??
Correct.
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Ovo == this ??
Correct
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
On == He ??
Correct
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
?? je == a conjugation of the verb "to be" ??
I would say correct, although it is a little oversimplification.
Now, would you like to hear another interesting thing about Serbian? We use both Cyrilic and Latin alphabet. For instance, this is a Serbian site with Cyrilic alphabet:
Cyrilic Rastko[^]
and
this is the same site with Latin alphabet (disregard the text in pictures, which is Cyrilic in both cases).
Rastko Latin[^]
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Hi,
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
We use both Cyrilic and Latin alphabet
Any particular reason why? I'm guessing Serbia is at the crossroads between Latin text countries and Cyrilic ones. Is there specific groups who use one over the other, or is it all just personal preference?
From the links you gave me, a quick scan would suggest:
Promena pisma = Main Page
Promena = Main (I'm guessing that Promena shares the same root as the English word "promenant")
Pism(a) = Page (by elimination)
Pretraga = Search (actually I clicked this and I saw the Google logo)
BIBLIOTEKA SRPSKE KULTURE NA INTERNETU
Bibliotek = Library (I'm guessing because many european languages use similar words for library [or bookstore])
Kulture = Culture [seems almost universal in European languages that I've met]
Internet = Internet (Probably stating the obvious)
Srpske??
??Na = on??
Have you ever listent to Michel Thomas? I've noticed on his Spanish and French CDs he starts off on both with
It is = Es
It is acceptable - Es Aceptable
It is not acceptable - No es aceptable
It is not acceptable to me - No es aceptable para me
It is not acceptable to me that way - No es aceptable para me así
On the German he starts:
Is
It is
It is good
What is good?
Could you show me a sentence being built up in this way?
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar
The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
We use both Cyrilic and Latin alphabet
Any particular reason why?
Traditionaly, Serbian alphabet is Cyrilic. However, for the most part of 20th Century we lived in the same state (Yugoslavia) as Croats who speak essentialy the same language, but use Latin script. Therefore, both scripts were in use in Yugoslavia, and although it does not exist any more, we still use both scripts in practice.
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Promena pisma = Main Page
Promena = Main (I'm guessing that Promena shares the same root as the English word "promenant")
Pism(a) = Page (by elimination)
Wrong Promena pisma means: Changing the script.
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Pretraga = Search
Correct
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Bibliotek = Library
Biblioteka = Library
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Kulture = Culture
Kultura = Culture
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Srpske??
Srpske == Serbian. We offten build possesives by adding "ski": English - Engleski; French - Francuski; Spanish - Spanski
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
It is = Es
It is acceptable - Es Aceptable
It is not acceptable - No es aceptable
It is not acceptable to me - No es aceptable para me
It is not acceptable to me that way - No es aceptable para me así
Let me try:
It is - To je
It is acceptable - To je prihvatljivo
It is not acceptable - To nije prihvatljivo
It is not acceptable to me - To za mene nije prihvatljivo
It is not acceptable to me that way - To za mene nije prihvatljivo na taj nacin
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I'm going to try and have a go at creating a couple of sentences. They will probably need correction.
Ja sam Scotski. Ja sam iz Edinburga. Je mog srpske prihvatljivo?
First, I don't actually know the word for Scots/Scottish in Serbian so I'm just guessing.
Second, can you make a language possesive in this way? e.g. I would say "I have forgotten my French since I was in high school" to mean the way I speak French rather than the language actually belonging to me. IIRC, I can do this in Dutch: Het Spijt me, mijn nederlands is neit zo goed (I'm sorry, my Dutch is not so good). But, I don't think it is possible in Spanish, the equivalent is: Lo siento, pero no hablo español muy bien (I'm sorry, but I don't speak Spanish very well)
Thirdly, Edinburgh, the name of my home city, I've translated as Edinburga because I've noticed that it is common enough not to just be repoduced, but modified as ell. Examples include: Edimbourg, Edimburgo, Edinburg.
Finally, I actually wanted to add to the question "for so few lessons", but that is currently beyond me.
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar
The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Ja sam Scotski
Ja sam Skot.
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Ja sam iz Edinburga.
Perfect!
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Je mog srpske prihvatljivo?
Je li moj srpski prihvatljiv?
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Second, can you make a language possesive in this way?
It's not really "by the book", but it has been used recently - probably under the influence from English.
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
Thirdly, Edinburgh, the name of my home city, I've translated as Edinburga
Edinburgh = Edinburg. However, if you use it as an accusative, an -a is prepended, and then it is Edingurga.
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This is in response to a post in the Lounge[^] by Paul Watson.
As I said to him earlier, I don't really go much for reading people's blogs much. This is a list of people's blogs I have gone to because of the person rather than I was taken there by some link.
First on the list, and because this is the first Blog I ever consciously went to, is Anna-Jayne Metcalf[^]
The next two on the list are also fellow CPians, both photography enthusiasts and both South African. They are Paul Watson[^] and Megan Forbes[^]
Not exactly a Blog per se, but I do visit MSDN's Channel 9[^] and in particular look out for the videos by fellow Scot Bill Hill[^]. User Interfaces are a topic that I am quite interested in. I've always felt that it is short changed in the vast majority of software development. If you watch nothing else of Bill's videos then I really recommend What were the influences in your life?[^]
Occasionally I visit Don Box's[^] blog. If you have never seen him live then I really recommend that you do. I have never seen anyone so enthusiastic about what they do. And I also saw him at TechEd 2001 in Barcelona where he just sat for an hour and a half doing a totally unprepared presentation (the original speaker was ill) and he was just enthralling the audience with "Stunt programming in C#" done with nothing more than a laptop, the .NET SDK and eMacs.
That's about it. I used to have an RSS reader, but I didn't like it [I am open to recommendations - The main thing is that it should not delete old feeds unless I tell it to. And it has to be unobtrusive when tells me that new feeds have arrived.]
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar
Coming soon: The Second EuroCPian Event
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Okay - This is really early, the Spring EuroCPian was just two days ago. I thought I just post this here on my member's page so that things can sit on the back burner for a little while until it is time to get busy and arrange it properly.
Anyway - Some ideas to get started:
Date... September??? October???
Location... Edinburgh (Not my suggestion BTW so don't think I put this just to make it easy on myself)??? Amsterdam??? Prague??? Brussles??? Barcelona??? Dublin???
Anyway, if you happen upon this and have more ideas before the arrangements get into full swing just post a response to this message.
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar
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Gosh! I didn't think anyone would spot that so quickly.
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar
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--Colin Mackay--
"In the confrontation between the stream and the rock, the stream always wins - not through strength but perseverance." (H. Jackson Brown)
When Monty Python meets Star Trek The Next Generation: WHAT is your name? Captain Jean-Luc Picard. WHAT is your quest? I seek the Holy Grail. WHAT is the average velocity of a Bird of Prey? Romulan or Klingon? I ... I don't know AAAAAHHHHH!
Enumerators in .NET: See how to customise foreach loops with C#
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
WHAT is the average velocity of a Bird of Prey?
The real question is; can it carry a coconut from Africa to England? (I resaw that movie earlier today)
--
If there was a problem, Yo, I'll solve it!
Check out the hook while my DJ revolves it.
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- I came here on my horse!
- No you didn't! You've got two halves o' coconut and you're bangin' 'em togevva. Where'd you get 'em from anyway?
- We found them.
- In Mercia? Coconut's tropical......
Did you know that the castle at the end of the film is actually in Scotland?
--Colin Mackay--
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What is the title of the film translated in to Swedish? I've noticed that the (full) Spanish translation reads: Continuing the Madness of Monty Python with The Knights of the Square Table and Their Crazy Followers.
--Colin Mackay--
EuroCPian Spring 2004 Get Together[^]
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I don't think the title was ever translated to Swedish. I can't recollect a Swedish title, nor can I find it on the net.
Life of Brian was translated into Ett herrans liv. I don't think I can translate it back. The closest I can translate to is An adventerous life. The Swedish meaning is quite ambigous because it's context sensitive. If you were to bang on drums in the middle of the night, a week day, in the middle of the road in a suburb, I'd say you would be making ett herrans liv. If you've been doing everything that can be done between heaven and earth, I could say you've led ett herrans liv. I guess I could come up with other situations where you could use that phrase, but with a different meaning.
I've realized that Swedish is just as f'ed up as English and German.
--
Howling winds keep screaming round, and the rain comes pouring down.
Doors are locked and bolted, as the thing crawls into town.
Nightcrawler!
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"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
--Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
--Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
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