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And then we ignore them, as there is no alternative.
Luc Pattyn [My Articles]
If you can't find it on YouTube try TikTok...
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well, as Chris says, we should try to help everybody, even those who appear to be useless or lazy. At the very least we can tell them why they are not getting the answer they expect.
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I will stimulate initiative, creativity, curiosity, and learning in general; I will not reward lazyness. If that doesn't fit this site, then good luck to you all.
Luc Pattyn [My Articles]
If you can't find it on YouTube try TikTok...
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I agree with you, Luc.
My philosophy is to help everyone who needs help, but I do ask that those who need help take the time to think, even briefly, what they are asking for.
If you try, but can't frame a question perfectly that's fine: we can work it out and (in a perfect world) rephrase the question for you.
If you come in, yell something incomprehensible, and then ignore requests to clarify your question, then no, we can't help. You've made it clear you're not interested in participating, in helping us help you, so even if we help that help may not actually even be read.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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I sympathize, but that policy would also result in a lot of "CP sucks" talk, similar to what some of us think of SO.
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I don't normally disagree with you, but in this case I think I have to.
Many first time posters are lucky to find the right place to post, much less actually read instructions when they get there. And they are often panicking - they have a deadline for their homework and no idea at all how to proceed: they can't find code which does exactly what the question requires and that'#s all they can think of doing.
So they find us: a friendly looking bunch who'll do the homework for them! So they dump the question and ... it won't let them post it without something in the "What I done" bit. So they dump anything they can find in that.
And they get nothing back except a closed "Not a question".
That doesn't help them, doesn't help the site - instead it gets someone who thinks we are all w*nk*rs and bad mouths CP. Just as happens with SO: because the attitude there is "I'm wonderful, newbies should know better".
As the text says:
Quote: Let's work to help developers, not make them feel stupid.
And while that's damn difficult sometimes - I told one poster today that I wasn't talking to him any more because I'd be rude if I did - some of them do respond well, and need some constructive discourse to get them started.
Closing the question doesn't allow for that.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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It's often not used properly, you're right.
But I'm not sure changing the text would be enough - the problem is that some Querists have no idea how to ask a question and refuse to read anything in order to learn. That's generally why they are there: they don't want to learn anything, just get code they can hand in as their own work with no effort on their part.
It does prompt some of 'em to actually think a bit though - which is what it was there for!
Not sure what would get the terminally lazy to actually think a little bit - other than electric shocks and the API for that is difficult to install ... 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote: terminally lazy
A subconscious pun? I caught it right away because of timesharing systems. Two dinosaurs walk into a pub... 
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Subconscious indeed ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I think we're at the point where we need moderators.
Not to simply delete questions, but to rephrase where the phrasing is bad (though the person tried), to make the title more direct, where the person was too absorbed in their own pain to realise others can't read their mind, to give a thumbs up to good questions, and then, ultimately, to remove the questions posted without any care at all.
Who's up for being a moderator?
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: Who's up for being a moderator?
I think the ones that would do it, already do it. I personally have not done moderation / edition to the Q&A regularly for quite a while, mainly for two reasons...
1) It is damned time consuming and frustrating. The big part of questions needing such moderation / help are most repetitions or questions that could get found relatively easy with a quick search. I know you used the the phrasing is bad (though the person tried) but even though it is tiring once you do the same for weeks
2) The enquirer's culture has been getting the wrong direction for a while. There are still people willing to try and to learn yes, but the biggest part are just plain lazy. They want us to read their minds (because to understand the text of the question is almost impossible) and give them a ready to go solution just to copy+paste and carry on until one hour / one day later when they struck with the next "problem".
Additionally, when you try to clarify things or you tell them "this is not going to work" the % of answers like "go and f... yourself", "if you don't know how to do it, shut up" and many other disrepectful answers in the like has increased a lot.
TL,DR; I know that the main goal of the site is to share knowledge and help newbies, but when you realize that most of the ones you are trying to teach actually doesn't want to learn, just a quick fix for his problem... that is annoying and demoralizing.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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those little buggers are pretty insistent
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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If the hamsters can detect some spam, it should be easy for them to detect keyboard fondlers. If the first several words in a post aren't valid English words, queue the post for moderation. And automatically close any account that has never posted successfully and that fails this test, say, three times.
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That's not the problem... they get moderated the biggest part of the times
Additionally they usually post two messages and move to the next account, so your theory would not hit.
What I am asking for is to clean up the whole "message closed" waste left behind.
Reducing the "message closed" corpse would already do it, although I suppose that there is a reason of it being still visible after a message got nuked.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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None of these messages should get posted. They're total gibberish. As it is, when a Protector posts about a keyboard fondler, I check the account's recent messages, Q&As, and comments to see if any got through.
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They are usually not posted.
As I said, what I am "complaining" about are about the corpses.
Even when I hit "nuke" in moderation and the message doesn't get posted, there is a "message closed" entry in the forum.
And those are what I am referring to.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I get it but also think they shouldn't get through. Either some of them don't get queued for moderation, or there's a Protector who's a double agent.
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I suppose that's the filters adapting / learning... I think the key strokers use different patterns, and that might get the filters a bit confused needing a bit of time to re-adapt.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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bugger Mr. Keyboard has filled the weekly poll board again and I am too lazy to go one by one right now 
can someone with a big hammer clean it up, please?
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Bang.
Thanks,
Sean Ewington
CodeProject
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Thank you, Sean
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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If I'm in an article, try to vote I get told "You must have aconfirmed email addressto vote" [sic]
It looks like "confirmed email address" is a link to let me do just that, but when I approach that with my mouse, it changes to the 5 empty stars like I'm trying to rate the article again.
How do I confirm my email address otherwise (I changed my email twice in settings, but no email confirmation was sent or link appeared there)? And can that mouse-approaching behaviour be stopped please?!
Thanks
Rob
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I am not sure you can. I have sent you an email confirmation.
Thanks,
Sean Ewington
CodeProject
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Rob Randell wrote: And can that mouse-approaching behaviour be stopped please
It's our way of messing with your head.
It's on the TODO list to get a stern talking to.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Cheers both, appreciate that.
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