The Weird and The Wonderful

The Weird and The Wonderful forum is a place to post Coding Horrors, Worst Practices, and the occasional flash of brilliance.

We all come across code that simply boggles the mind. Lazy kludges, embarrassing mistakes, horrid workarounds and developers just not quite getting it. And then somedays we come across - or write - the truly sublime.

Post your Best, your worst, and your most interesting. But please - no programming questions . This forum is purely for amusement and discussions on code snippets. All actual programming questions will be removed.

Re: SQL (Transact-SQL) needs a proper FOR loop!

snorkie4-Apr-24 8:08

snorkie

4-Apr-24 8:08

I think its a bad idea. SQL is the wrong place to perform that type of logic. If you can't perform it in a set type of operation, then move it out of SQL. Working with this limitation has made my SQL skills stronger and encouraged me to think differently about modifying data.

I get that there are exceptions and if you have to do it in SQL, it already has cursors.

Hogan

Re: SQL (Transact-SQL) needs a proper FOR loop!

PIEBALDconsult4-Apr-24 8:16

PIEBALDconsult

4-Apr-24 8:16

Absolutely. I'm a huge proponent of not doing the kinds of thing I'm doing at the moment in SQL*, but I'd rather have it for when it makes some sense.

snorkie wrote:
think differently about modifying data

Which isn't what I'm doing in this particular case.

snorkie wrote:
it already has cursors

Certainly, but still not applicable to this particular case.

* This is just a quick-and-dirty little investigation into some data analysis. I might re-write these functions in C#, but it's really not worth the effort.

Re: SQL (Transact-SQL) needs a proper FOR loop!

Sander Rossel8-Apr-24 1:11

Sander Rossel

8-Apr-24 1:11

I worked at a company who preferred to do as much as possible in SQL Server.
A stored procedure, as they claimed, is easy to change in production and you can write business logic in the one place where every user action ultimately ends up in: the database.
The client applications were all WinForms.

Of course, all of this is a fallacy.
Yes, it's easy to change a view or stored procedure in production (we could make the change and hit F5), but the question is why wouldn't software be easy to update?
This was about 10 to 14 years ago, but this company did not have DevOps practices and every deployment was manual work, which also required users to restart the software (which was of course pretty common at the time).
That last part is a nuisance which really can't be helped at this point (unless you use stored procedures), but having a difficult and manual deployment process can be helped and should be helped.
Which would remove a part of the need for stored procedures and logic in your database.

The second reason, having everything in one place, can of course be solved by using services in a server-client, service-oriented and/or microservices architecture.
And when you have services doing all the logic, you don't have to restart client applications either.
Now, instead of using stored procedures and views you can use a service instead.
A service is easy to debug, easy to put in source control and easy to automatically deploy, unlike SQL code.
And you never have the risk of updating the wrong thing either (which happened from time to time) because you're simply not messing around in production environment "on the fly".

So, I've made a choice to let a database do what it does best, store data, and keep it as "dumb" as possible.
Everything else is handled by applications and services Smile | :)

Best,
Sander

Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook)
Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook)
Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure
arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript

Re: SQL (Transact-SQL) needs a proper FOR loop!

PIEBALDconsult8-Apr-24 3:27

PIEBALDconsult

8-Apr-24 3:27

Sander Rossel wrote:
easy to change in production

That's my main argument against putting code in the database.
Auditing what code is where becomes difficult. I've had to write systems for comparing procedures and functions between environments to ensure that what we thought was in production actually was.
It would also be true of other systems where you don't deploy compiled executables -- e.g. Python.

Sander Rossel wrote:
a choice to let a database do what it does best, store data, and keep it as "dumb" as possible.

Totally agree.

But, I still argue for having tools. What I'm working on is just an idle curiosity.

Re: SQL (Transact-SQL) needs a proper FOR loop!

Sander Rossel10-Apr-24 4:29

Sander Rossel

10-Apr-24 4:29

PIEBALDconsult wrote:
comparing procedures and functions between environments to ensure that what we thought was in production actually was.

Been there, done that Laugh | :laugh:

Best,
Sander

Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook)
Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook)
Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure
arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript

Re: SQL (Transact-SQL) needs a proper FOR loop!

GuyThiebaut8-Apr-24 23:53

GuyThiebaut

8-Apr-24 23:53

Like with so much, I think it's a bit more of an "it depends".

Database engines are very good at retrieving complex indexed data structures quickly.

I don't know if there are any tests out there but I reckon for very large datasets, with multiple joins, a database engine probably still beats using something like Entity Framework - happy to be shown to be wrong on this.

So I think for small simple datasets - yes, placing all the logic inside the service probably does make sense.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

― Christopher Hitchens

Re: SQL (Transact-SQL) needs a proper FOR loop!

Sander Rossel9-Apr-24 0:15

Sander Rossel

9-Apr-24 0:15

Yeah, but EF can just as well generate queries and let the database handle the retrieval.
But you're right, in some cases writing a stored procedure could be more performant.
Although EF has been getting better in that regard (like there are built-in DeleteAsync and UpdateAsync methods).

Best,
Sander

Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook)
Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook)
Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure
arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript

Re: SQL (Transact-SQL) needs a proper FOR loop!

ChandraRam12-Apr-24 1:16

ChandraRam

12-Apr-24 1:16

GuyThiebaut wrote:
I don't know if there are any tests out there but I reckon for very large datasets, with multiple joins, a database engine probably still beats using something like Entity Framework

Not a standard test by any means, but definitely proven in my applications where I've used stored procedures as against queries within the software.

Happiness will never come to those who fail to appreciate what they already have. -Anon
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. -Frederick Nietzsche

Re: SQL (Transact-SQL) needs a proper FOR loop!

honey the codewitch9-Apr-24 21:58

honey the codewitch

9-Apr-24 21:58

It's kind of a nasty alternative, admittedly, but I'm used to it because of a c pattern I employ all the time

C++

while(count--) { ... }

I think because I'm so used to dealing with that I spotted your bug right away.

These days I prefer to generate SQL, DML and DDL code because it's so sloppy, like JS. Really it should be transpiled from something more modern and cohesive.

Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix

Re: SQL (Transact-SQL) needs a proper FOR loop!

jsc4210-Apr-24 0:24

jsc42

10-Apr-24 0:24

honey the codewitch wrote:
It's kind of a nasty alternative, admittedly, but I'm used to it because of a c pattern I employ all the time
C++
while(count--) { ... }

Or, for a slightly more readable (but slightly less efficient) code construct, you can use the fake 'down to' / 'tends to' operator -->. It works in C, C#, JavaScript and other C derived languages but it does not actually exist as an operator. e.g.

JavaScript

while (count --> 0) { ... }

as it is just an unusually laid out version of

while ((count--) > 0) { ... }

and the test for > 0 is redundant as when count is positive the result is already true and when 0 it is already false.

One useful feature of the --> operator is that it allows counting down to non-zero endpoints as well as just down to zero.

.bash_history makes me happy, how about you?

raddevus9-Mar-24 13:34

raddevus

9-Mar-24 13:34

I had used Windows since 3.0 (ca 1991) before I switched to main usage of Linux in 2019 so please don't make fun of me for this too much.

I've been working on setting up my .NET Core WebAPIs (hosted under various domains but running on one copy of a DigitalOcean droplet (running Debian)) and setting up the services and forwarding via Nginx and all that. It's all command-line there are a lot of steps that I forget often.

1. set up a service file in /etc/systemd/system/
2. build the WebAPI and deploy it under a folder in /var/www/
3. configure nginx to point at your webAPI
4. create link to the nginx config ln -s /etc/nginx/sites-available/<apiName> /etc/nginx/sites-enabled/

There's a bunch of things and I would lose the commands and forget things I should do.
And, I be forever up-arrowing to get to old commands that I had used.

.bash_history
Then I stumbled upon the .bash_history file and noticed I can open it up in an editor (nano, of course, because I am vim-weak and don't know how to exit vim Laugh | :laugh:

)

Wow, that is really cool that all those commands are just sitting in there like that so I can now pull them out and save them to a file with some documentation.

Thank you, Linux, it seems like you get better all the time. Laugh | :laugh:

I bet you already knew about .bash_history didn't you? Well, try not to laugh at me too hard for only finding it now. Smile | :)

Re: .bash_history makes me happy, how about you?

k50549-Mar-24 15:59

k5054

9-Mar-24 15:59

A couple of pointers:
!$ is the last argument of the last command e.g.

Bash

$ cat foo.bar
$ nano !$   # expands to "nano foo.bar"

!! repeats the last command
CTRL+r does a reverse search through your history so

Bash

$ CTRL+rfoo

searches backwards through your history for the most recent command with "foo" somewhere in it, so it might match
nano foo.bar or setfoobar able baker charlierepeating [CTL-R] searches to the next previous, etc.
There's a whole bunch of other things you can do, but those are the ones I use most often

"A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants"
Chuckles the clown

Re: .bash_history makes me happy, how about you?

raddevus9-Mar-24 16:02

raddevus

9-Mar-24 16:02

Very cool. Thanks for the additional pointers. Thumbs Up | :thumbsup:

Re: .bash_history makes me happy, how about you?

Peter_in_27809-Mar-24 21:06

Peter_in_2780

9-Mar-24 21:06

In addition to what k5054 said, bone up on the readline library that bash (and many other command line utilities) use.
Lots more tricks at your fingertips from my second most frequent use, correcting typos in a recalled command, to really esoteric magic.
(My most frequent use is autocomplete.)

Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012

Re: .bash_history makes me happy, how about you?

Nelek9-Mar-24 22:25

Nelek

9-Mar-24 22:25

raddevus wrote:
I am vim-weak and don't know how to exit vim

IIRC it exits with ":q" (short for :quit)

and all other variations if you have saved or not, you want to force the saving (even if you open in read modus) or not, if you want to...

Yeah, it might be a bit annoying Big Grin | :-D

M.D.V.

If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

Re: .bash_history makes me happy, how about you?

11917640 Member 11-Mar-24 21:41

11917640 Member

11-Mar-24 21:41

raddevus wrote:
I am vim-weak and don't know how to exit vim

How to exit vim:

Try to turn off the computer. If you cannot - buy the new one.

Turn on the computer and reinstall OS.

Standards? Eat your heart out, Randall

Peter_in_278025-Feb-24 15:07

Peter_in_2780

25-Feb-24 15:07

Inspired by xkcd: Standards[^] ...
iconv --list produces this:

The following list contains all the coded character sets known.  This does
not necessarily mean that all combinations of these names can be used for
the FROM and TO command line parameters.  One coded character set can be
listed with several different names (aliases).

  437, 500, 500V1, 850, 851, 852, 855, 856, 857, 858, 860, 861, 862, 863, 864,
  865, 866, 866NAV, 869, 874, 904, 1026, 1046, 1047, 8859_1, 8859_2, 8859_3,
  8859_4, 8859_5, 8859_6, 8859_7, 8859_8, 8859_9, 10646-1:1993,
  10646-1:1993/UCS4, ANSI_X3.4-1968, ANSI_X3.4-1986, ANSI_X3.4,
  ANSI_X3.110-1983, ANSI_X3.110, ARABIC, ARABIC7, ARMSCII-8, ARMSCII8, ASCII,
  ASMO-708, ASMO_449, BALTIC, BIG-5, BIG-FIVE, BIG5-HKSCS, BIG5, BIG5HKSCS,
  BIGFIVE, BRF, BS_4730, CA, CN-BIG5, CN-GB, CN, CP-AR, CP-GR, CP-HU, CP037,
  CP038, CP273, CP274, CP275, CP278, CP280, CP281, CP282, CP284, CP285, CP290,
  CP297, CP367, CP420, CP423, CP424, CP437, CP500, CP737, CP770, CP771, CP772,
  CP773, CP774, CP775, CP803, CP813, CP819, CP850, CP851, CP852, CP855, CP856,
  CP857, CP858, CP860, CP861, CP862, CP863, CP864, CP865, CP866, CP866NAV,
  CP868, CP869, CP870, CP871, CP874, CP875, CP880, CP891, CP901, CP902, CP903,
  CP904, CP905, CP912, CP915, CP916, CP918, CP920, CP921, CP922, CP930, CP932,
  CP933, CP935, CP936, CP937, CP939, CP949, CP950, CP1004, CP1008, CP1025,
  CP1026, CP1046, CP1047, CP1070, CP1079, CP1081, CP1084, CP1089, CP1097,
  CP1112, CP1122, CP1123, CP1124, CP1125, CP1129, CP1130, CP1132, CP1133,
  CP1137, CP1140, CP1141, CP1142, CP1143, CP1144, CP1145, CP1146, CP1147,
  CP1148, CP1149, CP1153, CP1154, CP1155, CP1156, CP1157, CP1158, CP1160,
  CP1161, CP1162, CP1163, CP1164, CP1166, CP1167, CP1250, CP1251, CP1252,
  CP1253, CP1254, CP1255, CP1256, CP1257, CP1258, CP1282, CP1361, CP1364,
  CP1371, CP1388, CP1390, CP1399, CP4517, CP4899, CP4909, CP4971, CP5347,
  CP9030, CP9066, CP9448, CP10007, CP12712, CP16804, CPIBM861, CSA7-1, CSA7-2,
  CSASCII, CSA_T500-1983, CSA_T500, CSA_Z243.4-1985-1, CSA_Z243.4-1985-2,
  CSA_Z243.419851, CSA_Z243.419852, CSDECMCS, CSEBCDICATDE, CSEBCDICATDEA,
  CSEBCDICCAFR, CSEBCDICDKNO, CSEBCDICDKNOA, CSEBCDICES, CSEBCDICESA,
  CSEBCDICESS, CSEBCDICFISE, CSEBCDICFISEA, CSEBCDICFR, CSEBCDICIT, CSEBCDICPT,
  CSEBCDICUK, CSEBCDICUS, CSEUCKR, CSEUCPKDFMTJAPANESE, CSGB2312, CSHPROMAN8,
  CSIBM037, CSIBM038, CSIBM273, CSIBM274, CSIBM275, CSIBM277, CSIBM278,
  CSIBM280, CSIBM281, CSIBM284, CSIBM285, CSIBM290, CSIBM297, CSIBM420,
  CSIBM423, CSIBM424, CSIBM500, CSIBM803, CSIBM851, CSIBM855, CSIBM856,
  CSIBM857, CSIBM860, CSIBM863, CSIBM864, CSIBM865, CSIBM866, CSIBM868,
  CSIBM869, CSIBM870, CSIBM871, CSIBM880, CSIBM891, CSIBM901, CSIBM902,
  CSIBM903, CSIBM904, CSIBM905, CSIBM918, CSIBM921, CSIBM922, CSIBM930,
  CSIBM932, CSIBM933, CSIBM935, CSIBM937, CSIBM939, CSIBM943, CSIBM1008,
  CSIBM1025, CSIBM1026, CSIBM1097, CSIBM1112, CSIBM1122, CSIBM1123, CSIBM1124,
  CSIBM1129, CSIBM1130, CSIBM1132, CSIBM1133, CSIBM1137, CSIBM1140, CSIBM1141,
  CSIBM1142, CSIBM1143, CSIBM1144, CSIBM1145, CSIBM1146, CSIBM1147, CSIBM1148,
  CSIBM1149, CSIBM1153, CSIBM1154, CSIBM1155, CSIBM1156, CSIBM1157, CSIBM1158,
  CSIBM1160, CSIBM1161, CSIBM1163, CSIBM1164, CSIBM1166, CSIBM1167, CSIBM1364,
  CSIBM1371, CSIBM1388, CSIBM1390, CSIBM1399, CSIBM4517, CSIBM4899, CSIBM4909,
  CSIBM4971, CSIBM5347, CSIBM9030, CSIBM9066, CSIBM9448, CSIBM12712,
  CSIBM16804, CSIBM11621162, CSISO4UNITEDKINGDOM, CSISO10SWEDISH,
  CSISO11SWEDISHFORNAMES, CSISO14JISC6220RO, CSISO15ITALIAN, CSISO16PORTUGESE,
  CSISO17SPANISH, CSISO18GREEK7OLD, CSISO19LATINGREEK, CSISO21GERMAN,
  CSISO25FRENCH, CSISO27LATINGREEK1, CSISO49INIS, CSISO50INIS8,
  CSISO51INISCYRILLIC, CSISO58GB1988, CSISO60DANISHNORWEGIAN,
  CSISO60NORWEGIAN1, CSISO61NORWEGIAN2, CSISO69FRENCH, CSISO84PORTUGUESE2,
  CSISO85SPANISH2, CSISO86HUNGARIAN, CSISO88GREEK7, CSISO89ASMO449, CSISO90,
  CSISO92JISC62991984B, CSISO99NAPLPS, CSISO103T618BIT, CSISO111ECMACYRILLIC,
  CSISO121CANADIAN1, CSISO122CANADIAN2, CSISO139CSN369103, CSISO141JUSIB1002,
  CSISO143IECP271, CSISO150, CSISO150GREEKCCITT, CSISO151CUBA,
  CSISO153GOST1976874, CSISO646DANISH, CSISO2022CN, CSISO2022JP, CSISO2022JP2,
  CSISO2022KR, CSISO2033, CSISO5427CYRILLIC, CSISO5427CYRILLIC1981,
  CSISO5428GREEK, CSISO10367BOX, CSISOLATIN1, CSISOLATIN2, CSISOLATIN3,
  CSISOLATIN4, CSISOLATIN5, CSISOLATIN6, CSISOLATINARABIC, CSISOLATINCYRILLIC,
  CSISOLATINGREEK, CSISOLATINHEBREW, CSKOI8R, CSKSC5636, CSMACINTOSH,
  CSNATSDANO, CSNATSSEFI, CSN_369103, CSPC8CODEPAGE437, CSPC775BALTIC,
  CSPC850MULTILINGUAL, CSPC858MULTILINGUAL, CSPC862LATINHEBREW, CSPCP852,
  CSSHIFTJIS, CSUCS4, CSUNICODE, CSWINDOWS31J, CUBA, CWI-2, CWI, CYRILLIC, DE,
  DEC-MCS, DEC, DECMCS, DIN_66003, DK, DS2089, DS_2089, E13B, EBCDIC-AT-DE-A,
  EBCDIC-AT-DE, EBCDIC-BE, EBCDIC-BR, EBCDIC-CA-FR, EBCDIC-CP-AR1,
  EBCDIC-CP-AR2, EBCDIC-CP-BE, EBCDIC-CP-CA, EBCDIC-CP-CH, EBCDIC-CP-DK,
  EBCDIC-CP-ES, EBCDIC-CP-FI, EBCDIC-CP-FR, EBCDIC-CP-GB, EBCDIC-CP-GR,
  EBCDIC-CP-HE, EBCDIC-CP-IS, EBCDIC-CP-IT, EBCDIC-CP-NL, EBCDIC-CP-NO,
  EBCDIC-CP-ROECE, EBCDIC-CP-SE, EBCDIC-CP-TR, EBCDIC-CP-US, EBCDIC-CP-WT,
  EBCDIC-CP-YU, EBCDIC-CYRILLIC, EBCDIC-DK-NO-A, EBCDIC-DK-NO, EBCDIC-ES-A,
  EBCDIC-ES-S, EBCDIC-ES, EBCDIC-FI-SE-A, EBCDIC-FI-SE, EBCDIC-FR,
  EBCDIC-GREEK, EBCDIC-INT, EBCDIC-INT1, EBCDIC-IS-FRISS, EBCDIC-IT,
  EBCDIC-JP-E, EBCDIC-JP-KANA, EBCDIC-PT, EBCDIC-UK, EBCDIC-US, EBCDICATDE,
  EBCDICATDEA, EBCDICCAFR, EBCDICDKNO, EBCDICDKNOA, EBCDICES, EBCDICESA,
  EBCDICESS, EBCDICFISE, EBCDICFISEA, EBCDICFR, EBCDICISFRISS, EBCDICIT,
  EBCDICPT, EBCDICUK, EBCDICUS, ECMA-114, ECMA-118, ECMA-128, ECMA-CYRILLIC,
  ECMACYRILLIC, ELOT_928, ES, ES2, EUC-CN, EUC-JISX0213, EUC-JP-MS, EUC-JP,
  EUC-KR, EUC-TW, EUCCN, EUCJP-MS, EUCJP-OPEN, EUCJP-WIN, EUCJP, EUCKR, EUCTW,
  FI, FR, GB, GB2312, GB13000, GB18030, GBK, GB_1988-80, GB_198880,
  GEORGIAN-ACADEMY, GEORGIAN-PS, GOST_19768-74, GOST_19768, GOST_1976874,
  GREEK-CCITT, GREEK, GREEK7-OLD, GREEK7, GREEK7OLD, GREEK8, GREEKCCITT,
  HEBREW, HP-GREEK8, HP-ROMAN8, HP-ROMAN9, HP-THAI8, HP-TURKISH8, HPGREEK8,
  HPROMAN8, HPROMAN9, HPTHAI8, HPTURKISH8, HU, IBM-803, IBM-856, IBM-901,
  IBM-902, IBM-921, IBM-922, IBM-930, IBM-932, IBM-933, IBM-935, IBM-937,
  IBM-939, IBM-943, IBM-1008, IBM-1025, IBM-1046, IBM-1047, IBM-1097, IBM-1112,
  IBM-1122, IBM-1123, IBM-1124, IBM-1129, IBM-1130, IBM-1132, IBM-1133,
  IBM-1137, IBM-1140, IBM-1141, IBM-1142, IBM-1143, IBM-1144, IBM-1145,
  IBM-1146, IBM-1147, IBM-1148, IBM-1149, IBM-1153, IBM-1154, IBM-1155,
  IBM-1156, IBM-1157, IBM-1158, IBM-1160, IBM-1161, IBM-1162, IBM-1163,
  IBM-1164, IBM-1166, IBM-1167, IBM-1364, IBM-1371, IBM-1388, IBM-1390,
  IBM-1399, IBM-4517, IBM-4899, IBM-4909, IBM-4971, IBM-5347, IBM-9030,
  IBM-9066, IBM-9448, IBM-12712, IBM-16804, IBM037, IBM038, IBM256, IBM273,
  IBM274, IBM275, IBM277, IBM278, IBM280, IBM281, IBM284, IBM285, IBM290,
  IBM297, IBM367, IBM420, IBM423, IBM424, IBM437, IBM500, IBM775, IBM803,
  IBM813, IBM819, IBM848, IBM850, IBM851, IBM852, IBM855, IBM856, IBM857,
  IBM858, IBM860, IBM861, IBM862, IBM863, IBM864, IBM865, IBM866, IBM866NAV,
  IBM868, IBM869, IBM870, IBM871, IBM874, IBM875, IBM880, IBM891, IBM901,
  IBM902, IBM903, IBM904, IBM905, IBM912, IBM915, IBM916, IBM918, IBM920,
  IBM921, IBM922, IBM930, IBM932, IBM933, IBM935, IBM937, IBM939, IBM943,
  IBM1004, IBM1008, IBM1025, IBM1026, IBM1046, IBM1047, IBM1089, IBM1097,
  IBM1112, IBM1122, IBM1123, IBM1124, IBM1129, IBM1130, IBM1132, IBM1133,
  IBM1137, IBM1140, IBM1141, IBM1142, IBM1143, IBM1144, IBM1145, IBM1146,
  IBM1147, IBM1148, IBM1149, IBM1153, IBM1154, IBM1155, IBM1156, IBM1157,
  IBM1158, IBM1160, IBM1161, IBM1162, IBM1163, IBM1164, IBM1166, IBM1167,
  IBM1364, IBM1371, IBM1388, IBM1390, IBM1399, IBM4517, IBM4899, IBM4909,
  IBM4971, IBM5347, IBM9030, IBM9066, IBM9448, IBM12712, IBM16804, IEC_P27-1,
  IEC_P271, INIS-8, INIS-CYRILLIC, INIS, INIS8, INISCYRILLIC, ISIRI-3342,
  ISIRI3342, ISO-2022-CN-EXT, ISO-2022-CN, ISO-2022-JP-2, ISO-2022-JP-3,
  ISO-2022-JP, ISO-2022-KR, ISO-8859-1, ISO-8859-2, ISO-8859-3, ISO-8859-4,
  ISO-8859-5, ISO-8859-6, ISO-8859-7, ISO-8859-8, ISO-8859-9, ISO-8859-9E,
  ISO-8859-10, ISO-8859-11, ISO-8859-13, ISO-8859-14, ISO-8859-15, ISO-8859-16,
  ISO-10646, ISO-10646/UCS2, ISO-10646/UCS4, ISO-10646/UTF-8, ISO-10646/UTF8,
  ISO-CELTIC, ISO-IR-4, ISO-IR-6, ISO-IR-8-1, ISO-IR-9-1, ISO-IR-10, ISO-IR-11,
  ISO-IR-14, ISO-IR-15, ISO-IR-16, ISO-IR-17, ISO-IR-18, ISO-IR-19, ISO-IR-21,
  ISO-IR-25, ISO-IR-27, ISO-IR-37, ISO-IR-49, ISO-IR-50, ISO-IR-51, ISO-IR-54,
  ISO-IR-55, ISO-IR-57, ISO-IR-60, ISO-IR-61, ISO-IR-69, ISO-IR-84, ISO-IR-85,
  ISO-IR-86, ISO-IR-88, ISO-IR-89, ISO-IR-90, ISO-IR-92, ISO-IR-98, ISO-IR-99,
  ISO-IR-100, ISO-IR-101, ISO-IR-103, ISO-IR-109, ISO-IR-110, ISO-IR-111,
  ISO-IR-121, ISO-IR-122, ISO-IR-126, ISO-IR-127, ISO-IR-138, ISO-IR-139,
  ISO-IR-141, ISO-IR-143, ISO-IR-144, ISO-IR-148, ISO-IR-150, ISO-IR-151,
  ISO-IR-153, ISO-IR-155, ISO-IR-156, ISO-IR-157, ISO-IR-166, ISO-IR-179,
  ISO-IR-193, ISO-IR-197, ISO-IR-199, ISO-IR-203, ISO-IR-209, ISO-IR-226,
  ISO/TR_11548-1, ISO646-CA, ISO646-CA2, ISO646-CN, ISO646-CU, ISO646-DE,
  ISO646-DK, ISO646-ES, ISO646-ES2, ISO646-FI, ISO646-FR, ISO646-FR1,
  ISO646-GB, ISO646-HU, ISO646-IT, ISO646-JP-OCR-B, ISO646-JP, ISO646-KR,
  ISO646-NO, ISO646-NO2, ISO646-PT, ISO646-PT2, ISO646-SE, ISO646-SE2,
  ISO646-US, ISO646-YU, ISO2022CN, ISO2022CNEXT, ISO2022JP, ISO2022JP2,
  ISO2022KR, ISO6937, ISO8859-1, ISO8859-2, ISO8859-3, ISO8859-4, ISO8859-5,
  ISO8859-6, ISO8859-7, ISO8859-8, ISO8859-9, ISO8859-9E, ISO8859-10,
  ISO8859-11, ISO8859-13, ISO8859-14, ISO8859-15, ISO8859-16, ISO11548-1,
  ISO88591, ISO88592, ISO88593, ISO88594, ISO88595, ISO88596, ISO88597,
  ISO88598, ISO88599, ISO88599E, ISO885910, ISO885911, ISO885913, ISO885914,
  ISO885915, ISO885916, ISO_646.IRV:1991, ISO_2033-1983, ISO_2033,
  ISO_5427-EXT, ISO_5427, ISO_5427:1981, ISO_5427EXT, ISO_5428, ISO_5428:1980,
  ISO_6937-2, ISO_6937-2:1983, ISO_6937, ISO_6937:1992, ISO_8859-1,
  ISO_8859-1:1987, ISO_8859-2, ISO_8859-2:1987, ISO_8859-3, ISO_8859-3:1988,
  ISO_8859-4, ISO_8859-4:1988, ISO_8859-5, ISO_8859-5:1988, ISO_8859-6,
  ISO_8859-6:1987, ISO_8859-7, ISO_8859-7:1987, ISO_8859-7:2003, ISO_8859-8,
  ISO_8859-8:1988, ISO_8859-9, ISO_8859-9:1989, ISO_8859-9E, ISO_8859-10,
  ISO_8859-10:1992, ISO_8859-14, ISO_8859-14:1998, ISO_8859-15,
  ISO_8859-15:1998, ISO_8859-16, ISO_8859-16:2001, ISO_9036, ISO_10367-BOX,
  ISO_10367BOX, ISO_11548-1, ISO_69372, IT, JIS_C6220-1969-RO,
  JIS_C6229-1984-B, JIS_C62201969RO, JIS_C62291984B, JOHAB, JP-OCR-B, JP, JS,
  JUS_I.B1.002, KOI-7, KOI-8, KOI8-R, KOI8-RU, KOI8-T, KOI8-U, KOI8, KOI8R,
  KOI8U, KSC5636, L1, L2, L3, L4, L5, L6, L7, L8, L10, LATIN-9, LATIN-GREEK-1,
  LATIN-GREEK, LATIN1, LATIN2, LATIN3, LATIN4, LATIN5, LATIN6, LATIN7, LATIN8,
  LATIN9, LATIN10, LATINGREEK, LATINGREEK1, MAC-CENTRALEUROPE, MAC-CYRILLIC,
  MAC-IS, MAC-SAMI, MAC-UK, MAC, MACCYRILLIC, MACINTOSH, MACIS, MACUK,
  MACUKRAINIAN, MIK, MS-ANSI, MS-ARAB, MS-CYRL, MS-EE, MS-GREEK, MS-HEBR,
  MS-MAC-CYRILLIC, MS-TURK, MS932, MS936, MSCP949, MSCP1361, MSMACCYRILLIC,
  MSZ_7795.3, MS_KANJI, NAPLPS, NATS-DANO, NATS-SEFI, NATSDANO, NATSSEFI,
  NC_NC0010, NC_NC00-10, NC_NC00-10:81, NF_Z_62-010, NF_Z_62-010_(1973),
  NF_Z_62-010_1973, NF_Z_62010, NF_Z_62010_1973, NO, NO2, NS_4551-1, NS_4551-2,
  NS_45511, NS_45512, OS2LATIN1, OSF00010001, OSF00010002, OSF00010003,
  OSF00010004, OSF00010005, OSF00010006, OSF00010007, OSF00010008, OSF00010009,
  OSF0001000A, OSF00010020, OSF00010100, OSF00010101, OSF00010102, OSF00010104,
  OSF00010105, OSF00010106, OSF00030010, OSF0004000A, OSF0005000A, OSF05010001,
  OSF100201A4, OSF100201A8, OSF100201B5, OSF100201F4, OSF100203B5, OSF1002011C,
  OSF1002011D, OSF1002035D, OSF1002035E, OSF1002035F, OSF1002036B, OSF1002037B,
  OSF10010001, OSF10010004, OSF10010006, OSF10020025, OSF10020111, OSF10020115,
  OSF10020116, OSF10020118, OSF10020122, OSF10020129, OSF10020352, OSF10020354,
  OSF10020357, OSF10020359, OSF10020360, OSF10020364, OSF10020365, OSF10020366,
  OSF10020367, OSF10020370, OSF10020387, OSF10020388, OSF10020396, OSF10020402,
  OSF10020417, PT, PT2, PT154, R8, R9, RK1048, ROMAN8, ROMAN9, RUSCII, SE, SE2,
  SEN_850200_B, SEN_850200_C, SHIFT-JIS, SHIFTJISX0213, SHIFT_JIS,
  SHIFT_JISX0213, SJIS-OPEN, SJIS-WIN, SJIS, SS636127, STRK1048-2002,
  ST_SEV_358-88, T.61-8BIT, T.61, T.618BIT, TCVN-5712, TCVN, TCVN5712-1,
  TCVN5712-1:1993, THAI8, TIS-620, TIS620-0, TIS620.2529-1, TIS620.2533-0,
  TIS620, TS-5881, TSCII, TURKISH8, UCS-2, UCS-2BE, UCS-2LE, UCS-4, UCS-4BE,
  UCS-4LE, UCS2, UCS4, UHC, UJIS, UK, UNICODE, UNICODEBIG, UNICODELITTLE,
  US-ASCII, US, UTF-7, UTF-8, UTF-16, UTF-16BE, UTF-16LE, UTF-32, UTF-32BE,
  UTF-32LE, UTF7, UTF8, UTF16, UTF16BE, UTF16LE, UTF32, UTF32BE, UTF32LE,
  VISCII, WCHAR_T, WIN-SAMI-2, WINBALTRIM, WINDOWS-31J, WINDOWS-874,
  WINDOWS-936, WINDOWS-1250, WINDOWS-1251, WINDOWS-1252, WINDOWS-1253,
  WINDOWS-1254, WINDOWS-1255, WINDOWS-1256, WINDOWS-1257, WINDOWS-1258,
  WINSAMI2, WS2, YU

1179 by my count. No, I am not going to find out how many are unique and how many are aliased.

Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012

Re: Standards? Eat your heart out, Randall

trønderen25-Feb-24 17:10

trønderen

25-Feb-24 17:10

"furthermore, if you do not like any of them, you can just wait for next year's model."

(Andrew Tanenbaum, 1981, "Computer Networks" p.168)

Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.

Re: Standards? Eat your heart out, Randall

jeron126-Feb-24 5:37

jeron1

26-Feb-24 5:37

Sheesh, everybody knows that

OSF10020370

was so much better than

856

"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle

Re: Standards? Eat your heart out, Randall

Nelek26-Feb-24 5:38

Nelek

26-Feb-24 5:38

Sadly no date in Randalls XKCD Frown | :(

M.D.V.

Re: Standards? Eat your heart out, Randall

Peter_in_278026-Feb-24 10:31

Peter_in_2780

26-Feb-24 10:31

XKCD Archive page says
2011-7-20

Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012

Re: Standards? Eat your heart out, Randall

Amarnath S30-Mar-24 0:03

Amarnath S

30-Mar-24 0:03

Maybe we need a Standard for those who make Standards.

But, who will draft that Standard? Who will bell the cat?

Re: Standards? Eat your heart out, Randall

trønderen31-Mar-24 11:11

trønderen

31-Mar-24 11:11

There may be an RFC for that tomorrow.

Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.

Supporting multiple cores from bare metal C

honey the codewitch13-Feb-24 6:17

honey the codewitch

13-Feb-24 6:17

I always wondered what a bare metal C implementation - the kind you'd use to write even parts of low level boot loader code would do to expose things like a 2nd core.

Or rather, how do you use a 2nd core without a scheduler? I've always kinda wondered about that.

The answer is simple. You activate the core in the bootloader and then get the core to JMP to your code. One main() in effect, for each core.

C++

extern "C" void aux_core_main()
{
    // 2nd core just starts here. Spin a loop. Be happy.
}

Synchronization is a whole different story, but if you don't need to synchronize, why waste any overhead on scheduling?

Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix

Re: Supporting multiple cores from bare metal C

11917640 Member 14-Feb-24 22:39

11917640 Member

14-Feb-24 22:39

Symmetric Multiprocessing (SMP) with FreeRTOS

Use Ctrl+Left/Right to switch messages, Ctrl+Up/Down to switch threads, Ctrl+Shift+Left/Right to switch pages.