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For a contract role, how do you decide if the price is good? [asking for a friend]
I've "He's" kind of taken desired annual and added 50% then gone back to a day rate. Any hints would be [voice="Jim Bowen"] super, smashing, great[/voice].
speramus in juniperus
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"Did anyone wince or whistle backwards through their teeth?"
The only instant messaging I do involves my middle finger.
English doesn't borrow from other languages.
English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.
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"He" hasn't yet given a price, it's a case of if the advertised amount is worth chasing.
speramus in juniperus
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I don't have any experience with UK rates but I've done a lot of contracting in the states. Going through a recruiter, 35 / hr is only for rookies out of school who don't know any better but some recruiting companies will try anyway. Hourly rate in the 40s is for junior to midlevel guys. 50s & 60s are common for senior level.
Of course, that's going to vary with the skill set required. Also, don't know how your taxes work but here they can be either W2 (company withholds taxes) or 1099 (you'd better save your share, 'cause the IRS will be expecting it at the end of the year). Depending on whether or not you have a company, the latter may offer more advantages for tax deductions. The former often comes with health insurance, etc. - not from the client, but from the contracting company itself.
If you're going direct to client, figure between 90 - 125 / hr. This is what the recruiting companies charge the client, and make their money on the delta between client billing & what you agreed to. And for the record, I'm perfectly happy with them getting paid. I want them alive & kicking the next time I need a gig, so they need to turn a profit.
Whether you go direct or through an agency, much of it comes down to bargaining skills. You want a high rate, the recruiter wants it to be a low rate, and you arm wrestle until you make an agreement (many young contractors don't realize that everything in life is negotiable and simply accept the rate that the recruiter offers).
One last bit of advice. Whatever rate you agree on, take it and be happy. If you're not happy with the number, don't take the gig. Nothing screams amateur or someone you don't ever want to work with again like the guy who finds out what the margin is and then whines about his cut. Remember, everybody's gotta make a living, and if you left money on the table it's your fault, not his.
Don't know how much of this translates to the UK, but hope it helps.
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I've never gone contract, so I'm trying to think what would be sensible. The job is £500/day and to me that sounds okay.
speramus in juniperus
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First of all, I wouldn't touch a flat rate with someone else's ten foot pole. Unless you get it in writing that a day is exactly x hours, and not a minute more, you're wide open for abuse of unpaid overtime.
If they agree that a day is exactly 8 hours, then you have an hourly rate of 62.50. Okay through a recruiter, low if you're going direct (at least on this side of the pond), but either way you know exactly what you're getting paid per hour.
You also need an agreement that a) you will never work more than the agreed upon x hours per day or b) if you do, you'll be compensated at an hourly rate of x per hour.
When someone wants to pay you a day rate rather than committing to an hourly rate, it means they want you to work as many hours per day as you need to (and you know how quickly projects and scope can spiral out of control), and not be compensated any differently whether you work an 8 hour day or a week of all-nighters.
Abuse of hours is legendary in our business. Getting paid for each and every hour you work is one of the primary beneifts of working as a contractor. And it's the only kind of contract I would ever take.
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Agreed. I do contract work, and have been roped into a fixed-price job exactly once. I think I made about half of my normal rate on that one.
Software Zen: delete this;
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That's how I learned, too. First time is on the house. Second time is a self inflicted wound.
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Going from when I've used contractors - in the UK a 'daily rate' is agreed for a fixed number of hours. That is then paid for all hours worked.
speramus in juniperus
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I've been contracting in UK since 1998.
I agree with most of the above. Don't whine about the margin. If you're making enough money to do what you want to do in life, then be happy with it.
Rate - it varies a _lot_ on location and field.
If you're working central London, then you'll want an extra 30% just for commuting/temporary accommodation.
Outside there, I'd say £25/hr for entry level, 35-40 experienced, and 50-60 for rare expertise.
There was a lot of talk about IR35 the last decade, but in short, just pay yourself a basic, barely liveable wage - say between £500-1000 a month so in the unlikely event of being audited, you can justify that you aren't using dividends for daily living expenses.
Use a Limited Company if you are going to be a contractor for more than 6 months. You have a lot more discretion as to what to expense than with an Umbrella Company.
Also, you have a closer relationship with the clients than with an umbrella. When the last crash happened, I was out a lot of money when my agency went bust - and there wasn't anything I could do because technically I was an employee of the umbrella company, and the umbrella company didn't care as much as me about chasing them down.
Accountants. They can be relatively cheap for IT contractors as we don't usually have anything difficult to process. It's possible to do without, but you need to be very organised to remember to pay on the right dates.
VAT - Even if you don't hit the limit where you are required to register, it's a good idea as there's a scheme called Flat Rate VAT where you can increase your effective earnings by a couple of percent.
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I think I took my rate calculator offline but ...
2080 hours in a year
1960 working hours in a year (10 federal holidays)
1920 working hours if you take two weeks vacation
For multi-year contract (3+ assume no risk) for all others risk = 1 month + 40 hours for every month under 6 months. (Time to look)
1760 working hours available for 6 month contract
Find annual salary you want:
$50k
Find cost of health insurance, etc
$5k (just for giggles)
$55k/1760 = $31.25
Ugh but payroll taxes in the States? (VAT overseas?)
31.25 * 1.075 = 33.59
So if you charge $33.59/hr you will make, on average $50k per year if you take 6 month contracts.
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Very good! Thanks Ennis.
speramus in juniperus
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Ask 'em to throw in a caravan.
Keep out of the black, and into the red
You'll get nothing in this game for two in a bed.
Holy hell - the mind is a wonderful thing
MVVM # - I did it My Way
___________________________________________
Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011
.\\axxx
(That's an 'M')
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I contract in the UK and my rates vary depending on the role. So at the moment I'm working from home so I've accepted a reduced rate but if I have to travel it all bumps up the rate.
So if I was your friend I would look at using something like CWJobs and see what the going rate is for the skill set and go from there.
If your friend is working through his own company then ensure your contract is IR35 friendly. Also, in the contract include the hours you agree to work in a week (though I'm always flexible) and include the project your working on with deliverables. Working through your own company is a tax efficient way of working, pay yourself the min salary and take out the profit in the form of dividends.
If you friend is not working through a limited company or an umbrella then be careful about your liability. What happens if your friend delivers faulty software and the client decides to take him to court?
Steve0
You can't polish a turd.
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Umm, Pick a Salary you want to live on. In the States based upon where you live that can be anywhere from 50k in small town iowa living high on the hog. To 150k in New York City barely getting by. For grins lets pick 100k Basically in the states $50 per hour is 100K a year. per hour value is 1/2 the yearly wage. Give or take. Now someone above mentioned health care, others mentioned time off, and yet no one mentioned 401k(retirement), life insurance and other expenditures you will have when doing all this yourself.
Most certainly setup a limited company of some type and bill thru that. IT will save you a ton in the long run.
I think 5k a year is low for health insurance. I would start with 15k, figure another 15k for retirement. and Just for fun throw in 20k more to take care of lots and I mean lots of incidentals. You can reread those numbers as 15% for health, 15% for retirement, and 20% for other stuff(life insurance, company insurance, driving around)
Total is 150k or 150% of what you think it will be. It will most likely be near this number. Go with it.
150k is $75 per hour. Pretty close. There you go. If you live in small town Iowa you can live really nicely on 50k(I mean nicely 3 acres of land, trips a few times a year, nice car, good schools) so that would be about $35 an hour. New York you will need at least 150k to live on minimum. But you can do everything right outside your front door.
Pick your poison but go with 1.5X more than you think you will need. Always.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
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There is a great deal of competition in the UK for contracting roles.
You need to price your self so you will get a contract but not undervalue yourself. That's why I suggested that looking at CWJobs is a good idea. Work out what the competition are charging and vary your rate depending on what you can bring to the table.
Contractors tend to be paid more than perm staff (in the UK) so I assume that the OP is looking for more money and has fair idea of what they can live on.
Steve0
You can't polish a turd.
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Check out the last one[^].
speramus in juniperus
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"My Little Pony..." looks promising! I hope the book is in the stores in time for Christmas! 
Will Rogers never met me.
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Stop! Hammertime! 
It's an OO world.
public class Sander : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}
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As I read this article [^], my mind heard the music of the old song by Pink Floyd: "Hey Teacher, leave us kids alone ... we don't need no thought control ..." but all distorted like, as if it was being screamed by a bevy of coloratura sopranos being bitten by fire ants.
An appropriate frisson on the cusp of Samhain.
Google CEO, Erich Schmidt: "I keep asking for a product called Serendipity. This product would have access to everything ever written or recorded, know everything the user ever worked on and saved to his or her personal hard drive, and know a whole lot about the user's tastes, friends and predilections." 2004, USA Today interview
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Interesting last name for the author.
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No article starting "Strap-on" has ever led to something good.
speramus in juniperus
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Except possibly when reviewing Gentlemen's Special Interest videos... 
The only instant messaging I do involves my middle finger.
English doesn't borrow from other languages.
English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.
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No! Don't go there! DO. NOT. GO. THERE.
speramus in juniperus
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Whew, that's a relief. I thought I was the only one who originally thought the post was rather pervy for Mr. Woodruff.
Software Zen: delete this;
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