Click here to Skip to main content
15,903,523 members

Welcome to the Lounge

   

For discussing anything related to a software developer's life but is not for programming questions. Got a programming question?

The Lounge is rated Safe For Work. If you're about to post something inappropriate for a shared office environment, then don't post it. No ads, no abuse, and no programming questions. Trolling, (political, climate, religious or whatever) will result in your account being removed.

 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 2:55
trønderen18-Dec-23 2:55 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Jeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 2:56
professionalJeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 2:56 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 3:03
trønderen18-Dec-23 3:03 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
jschell18-Dec-23 7:04
jschell18-Dec-23 7:04 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
jschell18-Dec-23 7:17
jschell18-Dec-23 7:17 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 9:36
trønderen18-Dec-23 9:36 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
jschell19-Dec-23 4:49
jschell19-Dec-23 4:49 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen19-Dec-23 13:59
trønderen19-Dec-23 13:59 
Sure, I am talking science. Math and logic. The Universe and Time, in a scientific sense.

You are talking about non-science. Fine with me, but then I would prefer that you stay outside the realm of science. If you talk about "outside the universe", you relate it to the universe, which is a concept of science. If you talk about "before time", you relate it to time, which is a concept of science.

I am perfectly fine with you creating your own world of concepts, completely unrelated to science. To me, it is like astrology: I might want to see what kind of constructions they have made, but only at an intellectual level. I know that it doesn't relate to the scientific, physical world.

The physical, real world that you can touch and hear and see, is the scientific world: Science grew out of a desire to describe it. Today's advanced science is an extension of thousand years and more of observing and describing the real, physical world. Breaking science away from the real, physical world is impossible.

So you have a different set of concepts, like the astrologists. Fine. But if you want me to study them, I will view them as mental constructions completely unrelated to scientific concepts. "Outside the Universe" or "Before Big Bang" are meaningless references, as these religious mental constructions have no relationships to neither the universe nor to physical time.

I see science as a description, not as the real world. I find it a reasonably good, reliable description. Yet it is not something that I 'believe in', in a religious sense. If someone finds a better description, I am happy with that. Einstein found a better description than Newton; I know that the world remains unchanged, but he made a better description. Acknowledging that has nothing to do with religious beliefs; it is just realizing that it matches observations of the real world better. The currently best scientific model, often called the 'Standard Model', makes both 'outside the universe' and 'before big bang' impossible concepts. Claiming anything outside the universe and/or before big bang is a complete rejection of the Standard Model. Then you have to come up with something that describes the real, physical world just as well, yet allows for those 'outside' and 'before'. If even better descriptions of the real world comes up, I will of course acknowledge them.

If we are to stick to the Standard Model, your concepts must describe something else than the real, physical world (given that your concepts are not related to the real world). You can show to me that they are close descriptions of "something". You may even be right, yet they may have no importance to me. There is a story from a church meeting, one of those regular meetings of the very tops of the Catholic church, it must have been in the middle ages, when there was a big argument about how many angels can dance at the tip of a needle at the same time. I sure would like to know how that argument got started! Yet: My interest for counting dancing angles on the tip of a needle lies far down on my back! You may bring up issues from your set of concepts that are similarly (non)interesting to me. Maybe I'd cast a glance on them, buy don't expect too much.

The real world is much more important to me.
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
jschell20-Dec-23 5:40
jschell20-Dec-23 5:40 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 9:58
trønderen18-Dec-23 9:58 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 10:16
trønderen18-Dec-23 10:16 
JokeRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Daniel Pfeffer16-Dec-23 22:38
professionalDaniel Pfeffer16-Dec-23 22:38 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Daniel Pfeffer16-Dec-23 22:22
professionalDaniel Pfeffer16-Dec-23 22:22 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Jeremy Falcon17-Dec-23 2:48
professionalJeremy Falcon17-Dec-23 2:48 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen17-Dec-23 7:37
trønderen17-Dec-23 7:37 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Jeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 2:43
professionalJeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 2:43 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 3:00
trønderen18-Dec-23 3:00 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Jeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 3:03
professionalJeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 3:03 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 3:59
trønderen18-Dec-23 3:59 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Jeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 4:00
professionalJeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 4:00 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 4:18
trønderen18-Dec-23 4:18 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Jeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 4:19
professionalJeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 4:19 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 4:23
trønderen18-Dec-23 4:23 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Steve Raw15-Dec-23 5:29
professionalSteve Raw15-Dec-23 5:29 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Daniel Pfeffer16-Dec-23 22:33
professionalDaniel Pfeffer16-Dec-23 22:33 

General General    News News    Suggestion Suggestion    Question Question    Bug Bug    Answer Answer    Joke Joke    Praise Praise    Rant Rant    Admin Admin   

Use Ctrl+Left/Right to switch messages, Ctrl+Up/Down to switch threads, Ctrl+Shift+Left/Right to switch pages.