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http://weaselzippers.us/2013/10/09/gross-u-s-taxpayers-shelled-out-634320919-to-build-obamacare-website/[^]
I love this quote: "... seem to have forked up more than $634 million of the federal purse to build the digital equivalent of a rock."
But I read that CGI Federal is the darling Canadian company loved by all. Anyone up north care to comment?
Charlie Gilley
<italic>You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house.
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Ummm, As a non US citizen or resident (UK) (hopefully you are) can you explain the fuss that Obama has caused to an outsider, The US seems to in limbo over this. It seems like a good idea but...
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Put simply, if you have no money and break the law the government will pay for you to be defended but if you break your leg then you're on your own.
speramus in juniperus
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I thought that is the way it was anyway...
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Me too! 
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Oh Lord, where to start?  Generally soap box material, but I'll see if I can be fair. Disclaimer: if it were up to me, I'd impeach his sorry a$$. He is an egomaniacal prick.
Pragmatically, the US healthcare system has issues. In an attempt to fix these issues, for a brief disastrous moment, the progressives were in complete control of the US government: Congress and the Executive Branch. As a result, they forced through the Affordable Care Act, also known and forever known as ObamaCare. The law was 2000+ pages, and commenting on the law, then current speaker of the house Nancy Pelosi said, "You have to pass the law to find out what is in it." Not a good indication.
Further, they did not address the real cost issues of the healthcare system - for example, tort reform. Worse, they just flat out lied to make it more acceptable. Now the reality is hitting.
After the law was passed, people smarter than me, read it. They made some predictions based on common sense:
1) Costs will go up for less coverage. Less providers.
2) There will be rationing of healthcare services.
3) The law forces businesses with more than 50 full time employees to provide insurance or pay
HUGE fines. As a result, many employees will be reduced to part time status. Companies will
also drop their plans.
4) Doctors will leave the medical profession.
5) There will be a HUGE increase in the number of people using Medicaid (I think that's our poverty
program) swamping the system.
I have personally seen #1, 3, and 4 occur. California is seeing 2 and 5, but I cannot speak to them. The fact is, it was sold as "free health care" to the ignorant masses. Mind you, I run my own business, I know the reality of what has to happen to pay for insurance. Most employees are clueless, because the cost is hidden from them.
I think that is a fair assessment. The world runs on TANSTAAFL (look it up). So, as bumbling as government is, we want them "doing healthcare"?
Charlie Gilley
<italic>You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house.
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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What you're missing is the European model. In general everyone pays into the healthcare pot and then when you need treatment it's there for you. There's the option to buy extra cover - so you can choose when and where you are treated - but for most health care we do okay.
The NHS is much maligned, but I know many people who are alive today [my mother and brother included] who despite being affluent would not have been able to cover their life saving treatment. AFAIK, my Mother would not now be able to get any health cover under the US system.
Sorry, but as far as being ill it sucks to be you.
speramus in juniperus
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Fair enough, but I don't think I missed it.
If the American people want to go to a European style of healthcare, that's fine. Just sell it that way. Don't call a penalty a fee then claim it's a tax. The entire law was sold as a lie. As soon as Congress exempted themselves, the gig was up.
NHS much maligned - I think I'm going to agree with you on this. I suspect any healthcare system has its horror stories.
Nagy, help me here - is there such a thing as malpractice in the European model? I'm ignorant. If a doctor or hospital screws up a procedure, can you sue?
Charlie Gilley
<italic>You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house.
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Malpractice is here.
speramus in juniperus
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charlieg wrote: is there such a thing as malpractice in the European model? I'm ignorant. If a doctor or hospital screws up a procedure, can you sue?
Yes.
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Any limits on damages? How about control of frivolous lawsuits?
Charlie Gilley
<italic>You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house.
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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charlieg wrote: Any limits on damages? How about control of frivolous lawsuits?
Nope and nope.
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Oh, bless the NHS is all I can say!  what is the general US view of Obama, he seems to be less for want of a better word "more reasonable", than Bush...
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Obama is more reasonable than Bush? omfg. 
damn, I need to clean the coffee of my monitor.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house.
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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OK, but he the view I got was Bush was very focused on the US, Obama does know the outside world exists
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Haha. Yes Bush was (So?) and Obama knows the outside world exists? Just wow.
How do you like the expanded NSA surveillance program? How about them drone strikes? Yes, Bush started some of this, but Obama hasn't done a damn thing worthy of his Peace Prize. He is nothing more than a poster child of the left.
for the record, most of the things Bush did raised my blood pressure as well. If you really want to cause my BP to spike, ask me about the thief Harry Reid.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house.
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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One other thing - Bush was the US President. Why would he NOT be focused on the US?
I'm missing something I am sure....
Charlie Gilley
<italic>You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house.
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Woah!, slow down, didn't mean cause offense to any one! It's just as the super-power of the 20th Century standing, I would have thought it would be in there own interest  ,
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No offense taken, your comment just surprised me. Yes, we're the last remaining superpower (for the time being). Power derives from economic production. We spent the USSR into oblivion, and now we cannot get our spending under control. Draw your conclusion.
I mean, do you REALLY want a US President that voted Present most of the time in the Senate? It's bad enough we inflict idiots upon ourselves, why would the world want it? lol
Charlie Gilley
<italic>You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house.
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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I do think I really need to find out more about the US system of government (my company does a lot of business there, the boss is an AGM this week). The UK we have one tool as PM, to be replace by another on a regular basis. The opposition does not seem to offer a difference, as soon as they get in it seems to be more of the same  . I mean the Badger cull, supposed to kill 2000 locally we got 500 ("as the badgers moved the goal posts"?WTF), which can't be tested for bovine TB, which why they were shot. Or was it to keep farmers happy? One sterling example of why I don't trust those in power.
Glenn.
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"Why I don't trust those in power..."
That Sir, will get my to buy you a beer or three. We agree.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house.
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Matter of interest did you hear of the Badger cull your side of the pond?
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Actually I vaguely recall seeing some headline somewhere..... Didn't read it though
Charlie Gilley
<italic>You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house.
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Lucky you, that's all you seem to get in this part of the country!
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The main flaw with democracy is that those in power have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo, when in power the only objective is to remain in power, when not in power the only objective is to get in power.
There is nothing to be gained by doing the right thing.
Whoever is in charge, therefore, is irrelevant.
Revolution is the only way to get any sort of change.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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