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Developers made Windows what it is today (or was).
Piss em off - and they will be off to greener pastures.
Who the ____ would want to write C++ low level on a touch screen?!?
I think some of these younger MS coders and designers having been playing in la la land too long. Someone should show them what's under the hood.
That's right - go ahead and totally destroy what you've spent ages developing... and start from scratch.... we'll have to find an OS that will work for people that actually create applications et al for the OS to become popular. Someone should just pull all source from MS and leave them to play with IE and slabs of glass.
Some days I swear it's April Fools.
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Rene Pilon wrote: Developers made Windows what it is today (or was).
Sales made the market, developers merely go where the jobs are.
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Actually - the title of this article should be:
Desktop - Say Goodbye to Windows.
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METRO
=====
My take on Metro is that it is primarily designed to be the gateway to the devices and service vision Microsoft has to protect/regain their dominant position in the Software market-place. I am not sure it has anything to do with what is better for the user.
Not all systems are primarily used for entertainment or social networking. I do think that a touch-screen is appropriate for many user applications, e.g. Retail POS, if the screen real-estate is realistic. Think of one of the millions of accountants using touch-screen to do entries each day. That should slow the financial world down by an order of magnitude or so. For developers the mouse and keyboard seems mandatory to me.
The idea that we will be required to work as we are told rather than we have alternatives is repugnant to me. The amount of Metro push-back I read about makes me feel that I am far the only one thinking this.
I realize that different levels of development effort are implied if Microsoft does it all. But maybe that is not necessary. There are lots of talented devlopers that can create products to augment/enhance a Microsoft OS. Microsoft should be encouraged to make sure the necessary APIs and other tools are continually made available.
In short, let's keep the Mouse and the tactile keyboard for those that need/prefer them.
THE CLOUD
=========
I am a cloud skeptic still. There is no doubt that it is coming like a freight-train. The reliabilty, privacy, and security issues trouble me. In a business setting (my primary interest) I am very uncomfortable with these issues. There seems to be article afer article supporting this. The cloud is a hackers dream. The cloud is their underground YouTube, their piggy-bank, etc.
The future seems to destined to be phablets and cloud servers. The future seems to be 5 years from now at the most. I am not sure we will be happy we went there. The software and information companies are already replacing the Cable companies. The monopoly and consumer-marginalization characteristics of Cable companies was never my preference.
I guess this is a bit of a rant, but that is where I am at on these issues.
"Courtesy is the product of a mature, disciplined mind ... ridicule is lack of the same - DPM"
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dpminusa wrote: The reliabilty, privacy, and security issues trouble me.
Not to mention of course the fact that it is a company. And if all of your company assets are on another companies computers and that company goes away you are in a lot of trouble in the short term and perhaps even the long term. To me it seems like no one (no developers) consider that when your assets are hosted that they must be backed up to a different hosting site (to a different company.)
This isn't just hypothetical as it has already happened when people lost their content.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaupload#Data_retention[^]
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Yep!!
To me this the third iteration of large off-site server farms in the industry. The first were Data Centers, the second were Application Service Providers (ASP). I saw some of my peers buy into the ASP paradigm and invest hundreds of thousands. They all failed and some had law suits to deal with exactly for the reason you stated.
The technology and sensibility is better now to try the ASP idea again and call it the Cloud. It would NOT be a good idea to call it an ASP again.
Most of the reasons the ASP's failed are still issues that are not well resolved. Robustness, Capacity, Security, Service, Price Mobiity, Data Managment, etc., etc. It is just very timely for other reasons. Maybe mostly because the largest industry corporations can benefit tremedously by becoming the new "cable-esque" companies with devices, services, subscribers, and near monopolies.
I would prefer a flatter, broader, level playing field myself. Some of our potential safeguards are influencers like YouTube, Twitter, Yelp, etc. Public opinion can be very quickly expressed and felt. We need these watchdog vehicles.
I am unconfortable with the direction of the internet as it morphs from its initial intent. I was very surprised to see Berners-Lee starting to chime in with the large players now. He an organizations like the EFF were keeping more of them honest in the past.
Some thoughts for what they are worth. Maybe I have just been in the industry too long.
"Courtesy is the product of a mature, disciplined mind ... ridicule is lack of the same - DPM"
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Maybe Microsoft should follow the Apple model, they seem to have it right: the same OS for mobile touch devices (phones & tablets) and a desktop OS for 'not so' mobile devices (laptops and the like). Seems to work quite well to me. Personally, I hate Wate (or should that be Weight!), much prefer Weven.
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I had a reaction of almost horror when I first encountered the Metro UI. I am still on W7 and will remain on it until they pry the keyboard from my cold, dead grasp. I also retain an old Dell laptop with XP SP3 and Office 2003 that I still use occasionally for writing.
My guess is that the Microsoft developers themselves will lead the push to make desktop product development (and by extension content production and data entry) a priority again.
If, as many seem to be saying, the Metro UI is anathema to these tasks, then the Microsoft developers would have been, or will be, at the bleeding edge of that experience and they will have an impact on the trajectory of the Windows UI experience. Their own productivity may well demand redress.
My spouse uses an older MacBook Air (I am not familiar with the latest Mac laptop UI) that she purchased in 2010 and it has Mac OS X Snow Leopard on it. That operating system UI is windowed and not touch-centric like the UI on the iPads and iPods of the time. I could be wrong, but it seems even Apple recognized that there was no one-UI-style-fits-all path. (Just a SWAG on my part.)
I'm with you on this Chris. I think the pendulum has swung too far one way, and that it WILL swing back.
The Start button has returned, right? A clue?
Interesting days ahead.
Mike
PS. Any relation to the Maunders Food Shop in Aurora? My daughter used to live off Wellington.
Cheers,
Mike Fidler
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The start button in 8.1 is just a button. It's not the in-place program search or quick list of commonly used programs that it was. Window-X gives you quick links to lots of fun stuff - but show me a mum-or-dad user who knows about that?
No relation to the Maunders in Aurora but I'm sure I ride past their place fairly regularly, and I'm positive they are fine, upstanding, intelligent and shockingly good-looking members of the community.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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What is the desktop used for? A picture and a lot of clickable icons to launch programs. Most computers I see are cluttered with Icons on the Desktop. I like win 8 because it takes the most used feature (IMO) of windows --- Launching an app by clicking on the desktop. Now there is a managed way to have that feature, the "Start Screen". The start menu was for power users. The start screen is for newbie and power user. Metro apps will get better once everyone stops complaining and actually let Microsoft know what will make "Metro" better.
Dear Microsoft,
Please make metro better by (sorry I refer to is as metro but it the only way I know you know what I am talking about)
1) Since file access is limited to developers give metro a full featured file explorer/picker/saver/opener similar to the desktop version with a panel on the left with favorites, network, etc... and different views List, Detail, Thumbnail.....
2) Letting multiple apps snap side by side is good. Next Make them Snap side by side and top to bottom for a fully customizable screen experience.
3)To ease everyone's gripping please let power users have floating metro windows in metro mode. I know its not the direction you wanted for metro but make it a hidden option so power users will stop their griping. If you only make it an option for certain screen sizes or multiple monitors that will cut down on the potential people getting confused about this feature.
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The answer is NO. We want your full attention to news and ads so you cannot ignore them. We will deliver targeted content according to your psychological profile. We will train your brain-hand reflex response to content so you will react to it mechanically. We like your profile already. You get easily fooled.
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Chris Maunder wrote: am at a loss to understand how the Metro UI in its current form can be
considered a sensible direction
It isn't a sensible direction for us, the users. It is the only direction Microsoft can see for us users, that leads to a Microsoft company down the road.
They need us users to feel so comfortable on their OS on all platforms, that we pull them along with us onto all the devices we want to use. The desktop was tried on small touchscreen devices and it doesn't work, hence Metro. Metro isn't optimal for desktop system users, but it can work there. Microsoft is panicking and apparently doesn't feel they have the time to give us all a transition OS version, hence the strongarm tactics to force all their users to switch to Metro.
Think of Microsoft like a scared and panicked 800 pound gorilla.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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IMO, after using Windows 8 since the initial release, I see an issue with a distinct separation between desktop and tablet UIs. I find that, being a 'producer' and not a 'consumer' I spend most of my time in the desktop UI and the Metro UI can get in the way.
They should certainly keep the new Metro style, as it's easier to look at, put simply. But I think it would be good for everyone all around if they would release a Desktop Edition and a Tablet Edition separately, where the Desktop version is significantly different than the Tablet version.
I think this would easily satisfy both developers (producers) and users (consumers) needs.
Alternatively, they can offer two modes of Windows, but I think this would be inefficient.
Also, they could simply make improvements to the Metro UI to ease it's use as a development/creation tool.
Either way, the current iteration isn't what most people are looking for. Tablet users generally want all metro with no desktop, developers want their desktop back with no metro UI. Though most, like me, do like the newer style, the UI is broken as a development UI.
I don't think the desktop will even come close to dying off in the near future, I think desktops will remain roughly the same as tablets and smartphones continue to grow.
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I think the move to the Metro UI was a good choice from the consumers point of view, the problem is that they forced this into everyone, whether you like/want it or not. Unfortunately for Microsoft, doing two separate OSs would have been far riskier for the consumer side of the business given that both Apple and Google had a good head start on this (see how Windows Phone fares so far).
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It does not matter if it makes sense or what users think. MS is monopoly that wants to impose their masters vision on people in order to retain and increase control over how people use computers. Multiple windows with easy flexible navigation puts you in control. That is not what they want. You have to spend minimum of X ms or sec totally immersed on news page or ad (research) so they can get their message through. The problem is that we go through pages selectively, too quick and discount parts that are of no interest to us. In addition we trained ourselves to ignore advertisement boxes, stupid or propaganda news and this drives media and advertisers crazy because they spent money and time with no effect. Each of us carved our personal niche on the web and there is no way to gather sheep back unless they force it upon us. Modern UI is the biggest Trojan horse in software ever. They do not like "personal" in PC. They have enough programmers offshore and are not interested in local competition and independent developers. The platform is closed. Use the device as you should - as interactive TV with brain-hand reflex controlled interaction; this is the future of computing.
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The days of Microsoft being a monopoly are long gone.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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Yeah, that is right; Now you have a choice; good cop bad cop; choose Google or Microsoft
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I must say, I like Windows 8 more than I thought I would. I haven't been using it for very long, in fact it was under 2 weeks ago when I went out and bought a new laptop, but I've got used to it and did so pretty quickly. When I first heard that 8.1 would allow you to boot straight to the desktop I thought that it was a great idea and that I'd instantly set it when I upgraded but here I am using the start screen more and more.
There's no denying that Windows 8 was an operating system built for touch. My experience has been helped by the fact that the touch pad allows me to use gestures and I'm glad that it does. I think it still needs some work to make it easily usable for desktops, but it's definitely better than I thought it would be.
"Theory is when you know something, but it doesn't work. Practice is when something works, but you don't know why. Programmers combine theory and practice: Nothing works and they don't know why."
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You understand that by using Metro UI you are interactive TV consumer gesturing like a monkey to the targeted content they pushing to you, right?
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I use metro because I've grown to like it not because Microsoft tells me to. When I first got Windows 8 I thought for sure that I'd use the desktop mode for pretty much everything and avoid the start screen as much as possible. Now that I've started using it I've grown to like it. Where's the harm in that?
I don't claim that it isn't without it's downfalls; it's not like I'll defend it with the same enthusiasm of an overly stubborn Mac user. The process of closing metro apps by dragging them to the bottom of the screen doesn't work well without touch for instance.
It's also not like I only use the metro mode. I still use the desktop because there are still a lot of things that I need the desktop for. I gave metro a chance and I liked it so if that makes me an "interactive TV consumer gesturing like a monkey to the targeted content they pushing to [me]" then yes, yes I am. I will, however, continue to maintain that it does not.
"Theory is when you know something, but it doesn't work. Practice is when something works, but you don't know why. Programmers combine theory and practice: Nothing works and they don't know why."
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This form of hybrid OS is just testing and training phase of future desktop-less cloud based OS with end user having limited capabilities terminal. There is a chance that to use fully featured desktop OS one will have to obtain non-consumer higher paid version. This will be for enterprises and for 5-10% of power users who can afford it.
I have no problem with Win 8 interface but it is useless for me because of the way I use computer but have nothing against people using it as primary interface as long as they know what it is. Consider desktop as temporary add on to Windows. It will be gone sooner than you think.
The problem is that Metro UI it is not a choice. It only looks like one for now. Win 8.1 asks you for Microsoft account and puts your files on the cloud if you are not careful; (there are some ways to get out from this option for now); if you check the agreement then you will notice that there is more encroachment on privacy, profiling, targeted content etc. Start button issue is only smoke screen. OS update cycle is 2 years now and they are pressing ahead with their agenda regardless of cost because the government and sponsors will cover the cost of media transformation (almost billion write off for Surface, no problem). The way this transformation is being done already created much needed confusion so monkeys maintain that they are not because it is difficult to realize what is going on (not meant as offense; more like shortcut)
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'Desktop: say goodbye to Windows!' This is exactly why I am switching to Linux. Only the desktop environment enables the work I do.
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I also don't know why it would be in Microsoft's best interest to drop the Desktop UI or relegate it to a back corner. There are still many people with mice and keyboards who are quite happy with the desktop UI and their legacy Win32 software. Killing off the desktop or de-emphasizing its value, would make these people have to seriously reconsider whether their next PC is Windows or Mac - because once you take away legacy software & legacy device support, Mac OS is arguably an equivalent product (or better?), and even more-so for someone who already owns an iPad or iPhone.
With Apple's announcement this week that Mac OS and iWork updates will be free forever, the TCO element is swinging into Apple's favor - it's a huge power-play - indicating that Apple knows its earnings and profits are not from Mac OS, but from iOS devices and app sales. More Mac OS users solidifies their developer base squarely on Apple products and emboldens their eco-system.
Microsoft should be very wary of doing any more damage to the Desktop UI. They already ticked-off a lot of users with Windows 8's downgrading of the desktop UI and 8.1 didn't do much to change that. Sooner or later, desktop users might just start kissing Windows goodbye if this keeps up.
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I whole-heartedly agree. I'd even go a step further and say many of these arguments apply as well to tablets: (a) many of the new gestures require too vast movements on an 10 inch screen or greater, and (b) hiding away some of the core functionality in corners doesn't make sense on a reasonably sized tablet screen. (c) also the two window limit seems arbitrary and unneccesary: what about utilities that do nothing but indicate a status in a tiny frame (time, connection status, battery power)? Why can't those all be viewed along with the active application?
There's more, but I'd just be reiterating other articles and postings.
For me Windows died with Windows 8, and MS failed to resurrect it in 8.1. I've been using 8.0 on my ultrabook for half a year and I hate it, in spite of all the tweaks I installed to return the W7 experience. On my desktops I'll run W7 for as long as possible, and once I need to retire it I'll probably switch to Linux. I may even switch my Ultrabook to Linux before then, it so annoys me. (It's not even the UI - I run it in desktop mode using ClassicShell - it's some of the W8 "features" under the hood that make me consider dumping it altogether!)
I used to prefer Windows over Linux because it worked out of the box. With W8, this is no longer true.
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