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It's funny: I actually spent a while working with a real engineer... and he was much better at what he did than I could ever be, whereas he considered what I did to be far more complex than what he did, and to be magic -- so in reality, we had the same opinion about each other's occupations... thus, in reality, calling me an engineer would, in some way, be demeaning (or elevating, depending on who's looking) to both of us. There's an interesting dichotomy for you!
I think what we do is easily as technical as what engineers do, but in a very different way: I'd agree that "engineer" is a grossly inappropriate term for it.
Here in Hollywood (and yes, I am in Hollywood!), "programmer" is just as misunderstood as "developer" since it also has to do with TV schedules and so on... I think the trick there is to ignore Hollywood. I know I do.
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Dan Sutton wrote: has to do with TV schedules and so on
But isn't that done by a Program Director?
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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I hope never to be completely sure...!
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I think there is a definite move away from the words 'programmer' and 'programming'. My impression of the reason for that is not to hide what we do, but to make it clear that we don't only do programming – a developer or engineer role includes programming, but also design, UCD, planning, client interaction, requirements analysis, testing etc.
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I think those two words have a lot in common, but are in no way equal. Being programmer is about creating programs - not necessarily by writing code. You can be a programmer and work with flowcharts (i.e. using Windows Workflow Foundation), but never touching the code itself. On the other side, coder is just writing code. It may be executable code (program, algorithm), but it also may be HTML or CSS, which are not programming languages.
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The topic "DevOps" is hot on this issue now. You may want to look it up in some of the technology blogs and sites. It discusses your concern and related ones.
"Courtesy is the product of a mature, disciplined mind ... ridicule is lack of the same - DPM"
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In some circles, they say scripting, in others hacking.
Sometimes it is so that they can ask you to do anything and you can't say "it is not my job because my job title is programmer". For instance designing - is that part of programming? Maybe yes, maybe no.
Developer or Engineer - that doesn't say whether you are an analyst, programmer, designer, architect etc. It is a title I've been using for the past 20 years. It is one title that fits everything, including moving chairs to get rooms ready for presentations, washing up after the guests have left, filling in shipping orders, packaging, cabling and even mentoring. It is anything required to train the staff, sell the product and get it out of the door.
Sometimes you get asked when you apply for a job - do you mind opening up machines and hacking together several non-working machines to make a working one if the job requires it? Some programmers will say no - their job is just programming or software development: such things are below them (yes there are snobs in this industry). Some will gladly do it because it is something different. Even hacking ice out of the fridge or working out why the toilet doesn't flush is fun for these guys.
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I personally see it as rather a great title to be given. Programming is a skill that everyone should develop, but there's only a few that actually have fully developed in this art. Plus, there's going to be that one job where you have to know how to code. If you add that you are a coder because you have developed this skill, your work and life will be easier.
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Is that from the point of view of programming being something you do as an extension to your job in order to handle certain problems you encounter? But what if your job is programming - in which case, programming is therefore an end in itself...? I think the verb "to code" (which I hate, from a purely grammatical standpoint) describes maybe 1/10 of what a programmer actually does...
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"Yes, I am a 'programmer' ... as in 'Person of Interest'; 'The Matrix' ...."
Be afraid; be vewwwy afwaid.
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Here's my take:
1. Programmer - A person who programs without necessarily any design or true full development experience.
2. Coder - One who codes. Everyone in this list is, or should be, a coder.
3. Developer - A person who codes, programs, and has some direct full life cycle development experience. Much more well rounded than just a programmer. You can ask this person to write a design specification and they will do it rather than say, "How do I do that?".
4. Engineer - What software developers should be but aren't. An engineer designs and builds things and have specific and special education and training about using and applying engineering principles. Virtually all software programmers and developers have no engineering experience whatsoever and it shows (badly).
5. Software Engineer - Typically and often used to designate an engineer who does software for embedded and special processors or hardware. Ask any recruiter and this is the definition that they use. Other companies use it differently. It really should be used to indicate any coder, programmer, developer who has software engineering experience. But when was the last time you heard about "engineering" software instead of "writing" it? We could really improve the profession here...
- Grant
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Ultimately, there really isn't a good term for an all-round programmer. The phrase "Analyst/Programmer" almost gets it, but not really, and the others are woolly -- for example, "Developer" could mean anything the listener wants it to mean...
I think a good programmer must have at least a functional knowledge of engineering... and, by extension, of everything else: if you want to be able to write programs to do *anything*, then you need to understand *everything*...
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http://xkcd.com/612/[^]
The link is copied from one of OriginalGriff's answers. One of the rare jokes on this page, which also a "not an initiate" understands 
N.B. It is worth to have a look to other jokes on that page *g*
idle63
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It could be worse.. oh wait.. no it couldn't 
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Is it a coincidence that the site is named: http://bringvictory.com/[^] 
"Never going to leave you ... " A True nightmare in a song that is all wrong...
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Just noticed that it's blocked by IE11. Yes it's blocked by the browser, I double-checked.
Now, is that a bug or a feature?
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I guess Microsoft actually has programmers working for them
Google on the other had does not 
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Curious - I was going to point out it can always be worse because you can be in whatever situation you are in and ginger*. Then Rick "Ginger" Astley.
* Unless of course you are already ginger, in which case you've already hit bottom already.
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I turned on the radio to find that 1D are playing at the Stadium of ShiLight.
Apparently they're winning 2-0!
Andy B
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Just imagine what they could rack up at St James's!
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... who told all these lazy IT students that they don't need to do any work. Just wait till their assignment is due and post it in Q&A. It seems to be getting worse rather than better. You would think that all the ones who get told off would pass it on to their friends.
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IT students have friends? That don't require a credit card number? Who knew?
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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