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Richard MacCutchan wrote: The whole plan was rubbish from start to finish, and based largely on falsehoods and misconceptions.
That pretty-much sums up every plan ever drawn up by any government anywhere in the world.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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That does sound like a bad plan.
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I had another thought about this matter and your perspective.
Let's grant that you're correct (I wouldn't know either way, TBH). Let's say Salmond is a lunatic and that he was actually pitching a bass-ackwards plan that was nothing but a steaming pile of lies. That all said, he still managed to get 45% of the vote and with a mere 5% change in the wind he'd of won this thing. In short, only 5% of the Scottish folks kept ya'll from getting crazy.
This is how people like Hitler arise (oh god, not that again). Imagine what the vote would have been had the economy really been in the toilet. I think we should be concerned with the world-wide rise of nationalism - all the signs are there that we're heading for another really big problem and I'm going to have to blame our current governments for this mess. They'd better start listening to the people again.
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MehGerbil wrote: he still managed to get 45% of the vote
Largely because he was appealing to the nationalists, who voted with their hearts and not their heads. They (somewhat erroneously) believed that independence would give them freedom and control over their own affairs, but they tended to ignore the associated responsibilities that they and their new government would be forced to adopt.
MehGerbil wrote: They'd better start listening to the people again.
I'm not sure that any government has ever really done that. And, to be fair to them, the people rarely speak with one voice, as any election or plebiscite will show.
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Collin Jasnoch wrote: while they buy out our elected officials and make them disconnected
I read that, but I'm still not sure what is wrong with the free market? You reference it and then blame bribed elected officials?
Seems to me the problem isn't the free market, but corrupt politicians and bribery. Can that situation be prosecuted by the law?
If you prefer some sort of collectivism... that is subject to corruption as well.
modified 19-Sep-14 11:09am.
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Can you please define True Democracy (government model), and can you suggest your alternative to the Free Market (economic model)?
You do realize that the House/Senate mix was a compromise because small states wanted equal say in government and large states wanted more say in government. Dissolving one, but not the other will not solve anything, it is just a relative shift if power to the smaller states (if you remove the House).
The corruption in the House is the same as the corruption in the Senate. Why remove one over the other? Just because they campaign every 2 years instead of every 6? One represents localities, the other represents the state. I think term limits would go a lot farther to limiting corporate bribes than dissolving one or the other.
Collin Jasnoch wrote: just seems that the branch of government that is suppose to represent the peoples voice more directly has been corrupted beyond repair. Put the peoples voice directly there.
I'm not sure I agree here. All three are pretty much out of control... judicial activism is overturning laws voted in by 60% and 70% majorities (people voting here, not congress)... and an executive branch that increasingly ignores the balance of powers (and I'm not just talking about just the current administration).... and a dysfunctional congress that is controlled by who has the best lawyers and can manipulate the session rules of order the best.
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Collin Jasnoch wrote: our nation has already fought a very bloody civil war over this
You should ready the history of Britain....
You have no limits on election funding, we have. It helps, a bit, but govt has to be more visible.
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It is of my personal opinion, that I would not be surprised that the United States and England did not have some influence in the vote turnout. Again, this is my personal opinion.
modified 19-Sep-14 14:17pm.
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the US influenced the Scottish vote?
do tell
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make allowances, his foil hat slipped
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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I've already seen one online petition with a few thousand supporters calling for the vote to be re-held because of the clear evidence of corruption that in the counting that led to the no result.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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you have to laugh or you would go mad
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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Talking of which Salmond has quit.
No confirmation he's going to be the new Fulham manager.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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Chris Losinger wrote: the US influenced the Scottish vote?
do tell
Although no one has proof one way or another, I do know for a fact that the global interests (U.S., England, China, Canada, Australia, etc.....) outweigh the interests of Scotland.
It would have been a great inconvenience to the United States and England and other countries, both economically and militarily, if Scotland would have voted "yes". So, I am not surprised in the slightest that Scotland voted "no".
Am I way off based in my thinking or opinion, without any facts or supporting truths?...Yes, maybe, probably not...who knows.
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Slacker007 wrote: Am I way off based in my thinking or opinion, without any facts or supporting truths?...Yes, maybe, probably not...who knows.
Probably should have framed your original post as an unsupported opinion rather than a factual statement. 
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Our federal governments are too big, too powerful, and too disconnected.
This would have been a peaceful way to handle the problem; however, humans seem to either choose herd mentality or blood-letting.
I hardly think 45% to 55% represents a herd mentality, and voting does not equal blood letting.
However, I agree on most other points. The silver lining though is that the very imperfect nature of humans means that anything the 'elitists' are orchestrating will eventually fail. Greed will make them to topple each other. It is nice though, during the rare times when there are actually representatives and servants for the people running the government (unlike much of anything I see now).
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Excellent post.
I am thankful that the flaws in human nature effect all people and that is the only comfort I find in these trying times. No matter how much of a boy-king one elects the fellow does get old and die one day - along with all of his ignorance, arrogance, and foolishness. Failing that, I'll die one day and not have to watch the charade anymore. Yes folks, the comfort of the grave is a real thing.
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So you wanted the entire population of two foreign countries, who have never interfered with your life, to jump through hoops just to satisfy some childish grudge against a few people in your own country?
And Americans wonder why the rest of the world hates them.
BTW, for someone to be like William Wallace, he/she would have to earn a degree from an English university, like Wallace did -- but I'm sure you prefer the hollywood version of his life story.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: So you wanted the entire population of two foreign countries, who have never interfered with your life, to jump through hoops just to satisfy some childish grudge against a few people in your own country?
That is actually a pretty good summary.
My only quibble is with the word 'few' which I would have replaced with 'most'.
As far as the news is concerned, the only disappointment was that there wasn't more rioting - the news is more interesting that way - but we can save that for next time. Should your people like to learn how to throw down a riot I'd recommend you Google 'Detroit'.
Mark_Wallace wrote: And Americans wonder why the rest of the world hates them.
This is incorrect.
Wonder implies curiosity and concern.
I posses neither of those regarding the rest of the world, much less any opinion they may harbor.
Mark_Wallace wrote: BTW, for someone to be like William Wallace, he/she would have to earn a degree from an English university, like Wallace did -- but I'm sure you prefer the hollywood version of his life story.
I cannot say I prefer the Hollywood story since I'd have to know the actual story so that I could compare them. Regarding the Hollywood story, I think Wallace should have won at the end. I contacted the director and he promised to make the changes should he do a remake.
On the whole I give your attempt at trolling a solid 4/10.
I went ahead and gave you an upvote because it's Friday.
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MehGerbil wrote: On the whole I give your attempt at trolling a solid 4/10.
To prove my innate superiority, I'm giving your response a perfect 10.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Wait, what happened here?
NINJA TROLLING!
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You'll never see it coming...
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: but I'm sure you prefer the hollywood version of his life story.
Not to defend Hollywood but... they portrayed Wallace as highly educated. He spoke Latin, French and whatever language it is that Scots speak. 
Or are you implying that with a degree from an English university he would not have been very educated? 
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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