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Ah, you must be the CP automatic debugger.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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The developer has less time for just coding - but doesn't need that time because what is produced works, and suits the customer's needs.
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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_Maxxx_ wrote: because what is produced works
I can see you haven't used any _modern software_ lately.
Now, 'at right 'ere is funny!! 
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Yah, agile isn't about making functional software.
It is about giving visibility to the stake holder so that at the end of the day, they can't say it's wrong. "YOU ASKED FOR IT!"
So in effect, there is an illusion of satisfaction... 
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newton.saber wrote: Developer has not time for development because s/he is too busy being Agile!!
I'm very agile at clicking the "close" button on my browser if I accidentally navigate to such crapware. Keep in mind that Microsoft is, in its ever so non-agile, lethargic way, jumping on the bandwagon as a knee-jerk reaction to the unthinking developer mass.
Agile? 
I just added about 50 user stories to Pivotal Tracker. And guess what? Because they are user stories, none of them directly captures the need for a REST API, and the task of such touches about 30 of those user stories.
User stories are great for capturing, well, user stories, but it does nothing for capturing the behind-the-scenes requirements, unless of course I want to add under those 30 user stories the same task "create a REST API to support this feature."
Blech. The whole concept of Agile was dead on arrival, IMO.
Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote: Keep in mind that Microsoft is, in its ever so non-agile, lethargic way, jumping on the bandwagon as a knee-jerk reaction to the unthinking developer mass.
That is a perfect summary of that advertisement.
It is so obvious -- after viewing the site -- that the agile app that MS is putting out there is indeed just a knee-jerk reaction and some crazy Suit saying, "we need an Agile management solution!! Make it happen!!"
It doesn't even look good.
Well, it probably will in another 123 revisions. For now, this will keep people busy clicking around.
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Marc Clifton wrote: The whole concept of Agile was dead on arrival
My overall tendency is to completely agree. However, the Agile process probably worked for that one high-performance, integrated team that derived it and used it successfully. In fact, whatever regime they decided to apply would probably have succeeded because they were "that sort of team"
IMHO the real problem arises with the bandwagon-jumpers and management who believe one-size-fits-all!
An ex-colleague is becoming increasingly frustrated by being forced to follow "Agile" (the company in question fall into both the bandwagon and one-size categories above), and is convinced that the old team we both worked in would have a working application in production already, that actually did do what the Users wanted.
On the flip side, the "better half" claims to be working with an IT team that are making the Agile process really work ... I have my doubts though, they seem to spend an awful lot of time talking about how long it will take 
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Marc Clifton wrote: User stories are great for capturing, well, user stories, but it does nothing for capturing the behind-the-scenes requirements
That's not true, because at least one developer who is working on the product has noticed the point you are making, so the issue can be raised at the next planning session, where how to handle the common requirement of a lot of stories can be discussed by a bunch of intelligent people (i.e. developers working on the project, not "other employees of the company")
That's one of the main reasons why agile works: it makes developers talk to each other.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Damn!
You're right!
CP must be shut down immediately!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: You're right!
Finally! Someone talking some sense around here.
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Did you miss his sarcastic undertone? Or are you fighting sarcasm with sarcasm? 
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When someone tells me I'm right, I take it at face value.
Besides, he didn't use the International Symbol For Sarcasm  so I must assume that he is actually saying I am right. That just seems right anyway.
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Right.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Marc Clifton wrote: Blech. The whole concept of Agile was dead on arrival, IMO.
There is great wisdom in your words.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Please people - instead of bagging others, look within yourselves.
You should, at all times, present the surface appearance of great depth.
And remember, the most important thing is sincerity - if you can fake that, then you've got it made.
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You're doing it wrong!
The way to be successful at agile is to be an "agile coach". They get lots of money for saying 'blah blah blah'.
Being a software developer in agile will not yield any success.
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What is now called "Agile", we used to call "The $%@#$! customers want some changes made to the product you just delivered to specs because they're morons who don't actually know what they want."
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Ah... but now we have processized being stupid.
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It is just the modern name for micromanagement
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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The terminology of agile drives me nuts!
I can't sprint for 10 yards (meters if you don't know what a yard is) let alone 2 weeks at a time!
Hogan
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snorkie wrote: I can't sprint for 10 yards
Another reason why Agile probably works for teams which are going to experience a huge benefit ($,$$$,$$$) in the end, but not for corporate teams where your only benefit is the same whether you're agile or not.
If you knew you'd make $1 million after the sprint you'd probably do it, even if it meant your feet might fall off at the end. What's the motivation for Agile, if you're feet may fall off, but you have no possibility for benefit?
Answer: none.
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Its sad when the process gets in the way of production and the tools make it difficult to do our job. Management wants to know how fast we are completing the project that having us, the programmers, enter the information into the tools reduces our productivity. Its getting to the point where the (agile) tool is the master and we must bow to it. If management would do what it is supposed to do (manage) and do it the right way (talk to your people), then relying on the tool would be so all encompassing.
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