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I'm disappointed this thread doesn't involve Bourbon [^]
CPallini wrote: You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him.
:Smile:
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it's not about Southern Comfort 
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Hello everyone,
Very recently (last week) I was demoted from my leadership position within the website team. This has come as a blow for me. Being in a leadership position is something that I have worked very hard to get, but maintaining that has been equally challenging. This has been my first position in a leadership role, so I know I have must have made many rookie mistakes. Some mistakes I know I will not make again and others I don't know what I should have done differently.
My biggest upset comes from my supervisor who I thought I could trust to help me "learn" how to lead a team. But communication between us has been falling apart for about two months. He wants me to "get it done" whatever that means in particular situations and seems no longer interested in mentoring me. I guess the mentoring part hurts the most because as I mentioned before being a leader is what I have wanted for a long time. I used to be a bit of a shy guy and this goal I set for myself really has helped me to trust in my vision and trust in my voice. Having someone to mentor me really meant something to me to work together to not only make a successful product, but helping me to learn how to rally workers together to accomplish the day to day tasks.
Lately (the whole weekend), I have been asking myself whether I should put away this dream or to learn from this and grow (how do I grow? I have no clue. Still need some one to mentor me). If I choose to continue down this path I really do need someone to turn to for advice. Further, I highly doubt within this company I will be allowed another opportunity like the one I have received. If I choose to let this go then I need a new goal to strive for and at the moment I am clueless to what that goal might be.
So I ask all of you have you been in a position within your career you were denied something you have desired? If so, how did you overcome them? Or how did you reevaluate your goals to see if it was "right" for you?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The pain of this situation still feels raw to me because that's how important this leadership position meant to me.
Thanks.
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul."
-Douglas MacArthur
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If leadership is what you want then don't let one "failure" get you down. I'm sure you learned a lot from this experience.
There are lots of books on leadership. Also, do what other successful leaders do. Find some successful leaders in industry and study what their habits are.
And practice makes perfect. 
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Thanks for that. You're right I shouldn't let this get to me. Trying not to take this too personally.
That's a great idea about reading about leadership of who I admire. Going to look into that.
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul."
-Douglas MacArthur
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RyanDev wrote: If leadership is what you want then don't let one "failure" get you down.
So many CEO's and politicians has taken this to heart. Whenever they fail they just move on to greener pastures to mess up the next company or organization that need some shaking up.
At least Op got some experience leading and can avoid the same mistakes in the future.
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Member 11683251 wrote: Whenever they fail they just move on to greener pastures to mess up the next company
 
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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ok, get a different mentor. One who is someone you want to be like. Someone you do not report to. Let me state that again. Get a Mentor but SOMEONE YOU DO NOT REPORT TOO. A mentor should be someone who is interested in your best possible outcome. not someone who has their own agenda. A Supervisor is a bad mentor. they have their own agenda for what they want. Even if they might be awesome as a boss.
Glenn Brooke [^]
Glenn is awesome. He has been mentoring people in IT as they move into Leadership roles for quite awhile. He is good at it. Go read some of his stuff. I highly recommend it.
Then pick someone close to you. That you look up too that is not I repeat Not your boss.
Enjoy life. You only get to do this once that I remember.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
modified 15-Jun-15 8:55am.
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I learned that lesson the hard way and I truly believe you're right about agendas. Many lessons learned.
I will look into Glenn Brooke from that link you have posted.
Thanks for the words of encouragement.
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul."
-Douglas MacArthur
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Agreed on getting a mentor who is not your supervisor.
Is there someone in the business who you can see has the skills you want, could you approach them as a mentor? Also does your company have a concept of 'practice' versus reporting structure so, in your example, perhaps a team leader community of practice or a practice lead where you can get help?
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Clark Kent123 wrote: I was demoted from my leadership position within the website team
1. Did they appoint someone more experienced in that position? If so, somewhat OK. That someone, if you feel has strengths you lack, is a person you can learn from.
2. On the other hand, if they have appointed someone junior to you**, you need to you what deficiency they found in you, which that person fulfilled; is that justified? And, need to go back to your objective settings, and ask your management which specific objectives/measurables were not met, with data. Not on a confrontational note, but more for clarification (with the purpose of not repeating this).
As someone has said, imagining oneself positioned on a vertically oriented spiral, there are two ways of seeing. If you look downwards, you'll slide further down; if you look upwards, you'll get inspired to climb up.
IMHO, no need to put away your dream; this is not the end of your career, isn't it? As a leader, you'll surely have much brighter days ahead.
** Has happened to me in the past, just because that person had a degree from the US, whereas all my education has been in India.
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The questions you have asked are very probing and enlightening. These are things that I have and will always consider. To look at oneself as objectively as possible in order to learn to grow. I know I have much to learn, but I am still eager to try again.
Quote: As someone has said, imagining oneself positioned on a vertically oriented spiral, there are two ways of seeing. If you look downwards, you'll slide further down; if you look upwards, you'll get inspired to climb up.
IMHO, no need to put away your dream; this is not the end of your career, isn't it? As a leader, you'll surely have much brighter days ahead.
I appreciate that. I am now looking up at that spiral and yes I do want to climb, but I need the tools to be successful in order to climb. Thanks for your feedback.
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul."
-Douglas MacArthur
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Leave, ASAP and move somewhere else. Sounds like you were thrust into the position with little or no experience with the HOPE that you would succeed because they needed a leader and they knew you wanted to try - a cheap and easy pick. Clearly, they do not believe that you have come close to success. You have no future there - you will always be seen as a failure by the very people that set you up to fail.
Just because you want to be a leader, does not make you one. You need to have years of experience dealing with people and projects under your belt before you can manage and direct them.
As for mentoring you, sounds like that was just "get on with it" - that isn't mentoring you, that's using you.
You were set up for failure. That's your lesson to learn.
Good luck for the future.
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Thanks for the wise words. Yes, I do feel for quite some time that I have been setup to fail. Criticism came too quickly, but constructive criticism was extremely rare. As for leaving I am currently looking for another opportunity. The working environment was not a right fit for me.
I know that wishful thinking can only take you so far, but I have to start somewhere in order to learn and this was a great learning experience of what not to do. My goal has not changed, but I do need to learn from someone who is willing to teach and give me the advice that is unbiased. To give me the advice that is best for me in order to learn.
Thanks for your feedback it is greatly appreciated.
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul."
-Douglas MacArthur
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I have experienced the same thing recently. The one question to ask yourself is, how realistic were the demands of management?
It's one thing to get yourself mired in the swamp of getting people motivated and moving in the right direction. Been there. Keep learning, you'll get there.
It is quite another when the management team is berating you because your team can't run the 100 meter sprint in four seconds. If this is the case, run. Run fast and run far. Trust me, there are better pitches to play on.
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Karel Čapek wrote: Just because you want to be a leader, does not make you one. You need to have years of experience dealing with people and projects under your belt before you can manage and direct them.
This is very true. I was a communications officer in the US Air Force for 11 years. I was in a position where I had worked for some high-ranking officers and could have done very well (ie climbed the ranks) with them looking out for me. However, at the 11 year point I was about to be promoted to Major, which would have brought a lot of management, staff officer, squadron commander, and other leadership requirements with it. But deep-down I am a software guy and I enjoy being a software engineer. So I separated from the AF and have been a software engineering consultant to the same AF organization I was a flight commander in before separating.
One aspect of being a good leader is realizing when you're not the right person to actually be leading...
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PSU Steve wrote: One aspect of being a good leader is realizing when you're not the right person to actually be leading...
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I know how you feel. Been there done that (A few times).
I am now back in a leadership role and I am succeeding in it.
The biggest thing I have learnt through experience is, I do not need to know everything thing, I rely on my team for help and regularly ask them for help. I am happy to so say I do not know but will look into it.
There are lots of courses and books. Just keep trying and learning.
Do not give up, you will get there.
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Thanks for the words of encouragement. Despite this bitterness that I have experienced I still feel motivated to try again. But this time I do need to seek a mentor someone who is willing to tell me what I need to hear not what I want to hear. Some have suggested books which I will be purchasing because this means that much to me.
Also, thanks for the advice on leveraging assistance from your team. That is indeed something I would love to experience. A team of people working together to make a product. You would think that should happen everywhere, right?
I have learned a valuable lesson from this experience and will prepare myself for the future.
Thanks again!
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul."
-Douglas MacArthur
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Accept the reality of what has happened and free yourself from the pain. You get knocked down, you get back up and try again. Set backs in life are to be expected. There is a time for success and a time for failure.
As far as losing the help of your mentor. You don't need him. There are plenty of good books about how to manage. I learned the basics from One-Minute Manager. Read a couple and if you don't get it, you shouldn't be managing. Encourage people, treat them as you would want to be treated. Pay attention to what they are saying. Managing is part psychology. Fix relationship problems promptly, no in-fighting. You can't change people (much). Sculpt with the clay you have been given. Don't b1tch about those that manage you. You can't change them and they don't want to have to worry about your problems, that's why you're there.
See yourself succeeding.
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Wow, great advice and straight to the point! 
I will be looking into that book that you have suggested. If there are any others that you have come across that have helped you beside the "One-Minute Manager" I would like to get my hands on those as well.
I will be taking your advice to heart and will do what I can to apply them to my strategy.
Quote: Set backs in life are to be expected. There is a time for success and a time for failure.
So true!
Thanks again for advice.
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul."
-Douglas MacArthur
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I don't have any other recommendations for books specific to management. I'm sure there are plenty of good and bad ones out there. The One-Minute Manager is a well respected text, if you need more after that, the right book will appear.
If you want to read more about success and meeting goals, try The Power of Intention by Wayne Dyer. It's a book but also there are YouTube vids you can view from his talks on the topic. It's not everyone's cup of tea but you may like it.
Best wishes in your endeavors.
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I know how you feel. I think everyone at some point in time get things they don't see coming. In any ways, as others have said, don't give up. If you give up you will be proving your supervisor right.
Some people aren't cut for leadership, but these people often know it and don't like the position or they don't admit it and are too arrogant to realize they have to learn and that they make mistakes. I think you're in none of these positions just by how you put your situation.
Know this, with leadership, come politics. Often you will find people trying to pull the carpet under your feet. Be vigilant, but be smart. Treat everyone with good care. Be polite, be helpful, proactive and productive, even if all you want to do is tell them to go to hell. You can get in real trouble if you start stalling people that make your life difficult. It's almost like giving the other cheek, but it is worth it, specially if they are your customers (stakeholders in general). Don't be foolish though, you have to understand when to say no, but you need to really know why you're saying know and telling these reasons to the right people.
Now, you can always back where you were. Don't rush going to another job, you're closer in your current job, than in any other. Talk to your supervisor, be humble and admit your mistakes, ask for the feedback on what shortcomings you had for being demoted and let him know you will work hard to get that position back. This will demonstrate maturity required for a leader.
Learn whatever you can from your peers. What do other leaders do that make them stick with their position? Can you do something to make your leader better? Your job now is to make your leader look better, so he can say good things about you. Step out of your circle and go the extra mile of your responsibilities to help your leader with theirs. When I first got a leadership position, it didn't simply land on my lap, I earned it, I reached out of my responsibilities. Realize you're not an assembly line worker, so never act like one, by doing just what you're told.
This psychological blow will fade if don't grow too attached to it. Turn it around and use it as motivation. I hope my words sink into you and you get what you dream for. Never give up on your dreams
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Great advice. All of it really.
Quote: In any ways, as others have said, don't give up. If you give up you will be proving your supervisor right.
You're right, I am not going to allow this to hold me back, but to learn from this and grow. On a funny note I once heard that the best revenge is massive success. But that's not my motivation to succeed. Just want to be a better version of myself and I see leadership as a way to fulfill that goal.
Quote: I think you're in none of these positions just by how you put your situation.
Thanks for that.
Quote: This psychological blow will fade if don't grow too attached to it. Turn it around and use it as motivation. I hope my words sink into you and you get what you dream for. Never give up on your dreams
You're right and I don't plan on letting this blow get to me, but to learn from this. Everyone here is right that if I don't have a knack for this then I should do what's best and let someone else step up to the plate. However, I do believe I have some potential for this. As one motiviation speaker has said that there are 3 types of people in this world; winners, losers, and those who have not yet discovered how to win. I am the 3rd type. I just need to grow and learn before I try again. I like the thing that you said about being humble and making my leader look good. That will work to my benefit as well because I will be learning from their success and failures in the process. Another learning experience which I can make my own.
I will not let this get to me, but will make more of an effort to grow.
Thanks for the words of encouragement.
"Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul."
-Douglas MacArthur
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I'm really happy you found value on what I said. All the best!
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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