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Ask Chris and one of the hamsters, and maybe you can all go for a beer -- you an' Chris an' 'im all together.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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It's the kind of story that seems to pop up again and again - government outsources a moderately challenging but very solvable problem to a consulting firm, and the firm fails to deliver a working solution despite being paid handsomely.
It reminds me a bit of Healthcare.gov in the US; hundreds of consultants couldn't deliver a performant solution even with a budget in the billions of dollars. A much smaller team came in and replaced the slow bits using Node.js running on AWS.
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You could also reference the Queensland health debacle, also created by IBM. They were the only ones paid hansomly, the medical staff had to make do while they failed to fix it.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Twice today 'Ur (the name of my latest beast desktop) has gone into a strange state I have not experienced before where if I try and launch other apps, like Chrome, the launch fails with no message; I open the Control Panel folder but Win never finishes enumerating the items and never shows any icons; I hit cntrl-del, but Task Manager doesn't launch.
The pop-up that has this message about "maintenance" has a button that supposedly should take me to the Action Center, but, hey, that doesn't work either.
First thoughts that go through me head: malware; or, Win10 install sneakaroo somehow infiltrated my defenses.
I am the only person that can use this machine.
So, I reboot, run a complete virus/malware scan: all clean. I open the Action Center and the only information I can see is that it says that Windows was not shut down properly ... well, yeah, I did that because ... I had to. Last Windows update was last week, and I have been religious about not installing the nag-install-10 KB's.
D#mn ... where'd I put my defibrillator ?
Thoughts ?
thanks, Bill
«There is a spectrum, from "clearly desirable behaviour," to "possibly dodgy behavior that still makes some sense," to "clearly undesirable behavior." We try to make the latter into warnings or, better, errors. But stuff that is in the middle category you don’t want to restrict unless there is a clear way to work around it.» Eric Lippert, May 14, 2008
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Does this only happen when you are trying to launch Chrome? Are there any services/apps running that shouldn't (if you are able to see them anyway)?
My first thought was a dead-lock or (because of the neverending enumeration) a continuous/multiple launch of new instances of an app which slows down the system.
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Thanks for your thoughts, I was, indeed, locked-out of launching all apps; I couldn't even shut the computer down, or re-start.
Since I couldn't access the Task Manager, or the Action Manager, I had no way to look at what was happening internally.
cheers, Bill
«There is a spectrum, from "clearly desirable behaviour," to "possibly dodgy behavior that still makes some sense," to "clearly undesirable behavior." We try to make the latter into warnings or, better, errors. But stuff that is in the middle category you don’t want to restrict unless there is a clear way to work around it.» Eric Lippert, May 14, 2008
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You're welcome!
Did you solve the issue? I'm just a bit curious 
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Don't Hit Save - It Works On My Computer[^]
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Good one! I appreciate the sarcasm! 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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Unfortunately, I have known developers that take that attitude and think "works on my computer" is a valid answer. 
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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yup. Works on my computer is the sort of problem that generates the most profanity while trying to troubleshoot because it generally means I can't see what's happening when it fails in a debugger.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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RyanDev wrote: Unfortunately, I have known developers that take that attitude and think "works on my computer" is a valid answer.
Not only developers...
I had once a project (budget almost in 7 0s), a 6 axle robot involved to handle the product... at certain point of programing and teaching the robot:
- Me: That is not reachable. I can't get the product over there
- Chief mechanical constructor (cmc): Yes it is, I have simulated everything and it works on my computer
- Me: I don't think it is possible, please tell me how to do the motion to get in there because I can't see it
more than 5 hours later
- CMC: It is not possible, the simulation was fine, someone has made a huge mistake while building this up
- Me: Probably, can you please show me your simulation?
Getting to the office and some "!§%$&"§(%!(/ later, he starts to show me the simulations in his CAD software.
- CMC: See? The robot has plenty space to get into the area
- Me: Ehhmmmm... Not sure if I am missing anything but... where is the gripper (780 mm long x 110 mm wide)?
He had simulated everything using only the basic shape of the robot, no tools at all. 
2 Weeks work doing mechanical adjustments / moving pieces all over the line.
Next 6 months he dropped the eyes down everytime I came in the same room.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Let's start with this statement:
I am really impressed on how stable the code is and how good it [the app] looks.
Followed by:
We are hedging our bets that we have smart young guys who want to own it [their code]. Both did not want to own [your] code base. That was the major problem. I see your code and see the pub/sub pattern. I see some other things as well and I don’t believe it is the best approach for… ability for others to maintain...
OK, so my architecture results in a really stable app, but the new kiddies don't want to learn it (none of them know C#), and the CTO thinks it's not the best approach.
W T F.
Over the years, I've developed both architectural concepts and actual implementation that is the bread and butter of how I code. However, as this Insider News[^] got me to realize, certainly the CTO doesn't go beyond the basics, and certainly the kiddies (having been one myself once) have no clue as to architecture concepts like services, modules, publisher/subscriber patterns, semantic types, type-based programming, etc.
The ironic thing is, most of these concepts I learned 30 years ago in the days of DOS, where we wrote an application using a publisher/subscriber pattern (C++) to handle UI and hardware events and log the stuff. Two things resulted: 1) we discovered QA was often in error when describing what they did (the logs showed otherwise), and 2) we created the most stable app because we engineered it. Those lessons have lived with me since then.
Software engineering seems dead, and one of the axes that has dismembered it are programming languages like Ruby, Python, Javascript and the whole duck-typed paradigm.
And as you probably know, from my other rants, what are they writing it in? Python, with F# (of all things) for the pieces that MUST use .NET.
Marc
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What that reads to me is that they've hired two young "rock stars" and now think they aren't quite rock star enough so they're prepared to dumb it down a bit. It's like organising an open air rock concert with initial interest from The Who, AC/DC, Iron Maiden and Bruce Springsteen and then signing Tiffany, The Proclaimers and Chesney Hawkes as the headliners instead.
This space for rent
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Sounds typical of the 'new breed' of programmers who want the $ without wanting to put the effort in. I wouldn't want to taint everyone with the same brush but I am seeing more of it.
Can you tell them to F# off?
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I know what you mean. I too have been down that road.
A colleague of mine (Bruce) had a situation where he designed an entire system to handle maintenance data for the US Army. As the development work started, the company hired a "kiddie" that thought he new everything and convinced the manager to override Bruce's design and approach for a newer approach he read from a book and the latest frameworks. Bruce was pulled off the project and eventually left the company, because he fought the suggested approach and the new guy took over. One year later, the project was a disaster. Pages of code were written, but nothing worked well. It was bloated, slow and unstable. The new guy left the company leaving a huge pile of junk code and the project failed miserably.
Moral of the story? Just because it's the latest and hot-off-the-press and the "kiddies" love it, doesn't mean that it will work.
No one listens to us old folk any longer... 
modified 19-Nov-21 21:01pm.
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Marc Clifton wrote: but the new kiddies don't want to learn it (none of them know C#)
Thank god i never had that attitude!
Everything i know about C# i learned my self, well yes i got the basics from java (no SCRIPT) but i don't get. If i just would have the chance to get someone with experience on my project and assist me on improving my architecture or other stuff i would be the happyiest person on earth. Sadly im always standing alone getting the "new kiddies" as assistant and yes i get your problem.
CTO's need to get in touch with stuff, if they don't understand the base how could they see you performed well. Nonetheless if you can, keep it as you're used to 
Rules for the FOSW ![ ^]
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
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HobbyProggy wrote: If i just would have the chance to get someone with experience on my project and assist me on improving my architecture or other stuff i would be the happyiest person on earth.
You would think. But these kiddies, with their Python and Haskell experience, heavily *nix, come with know-it-all attitudes.
Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote: these kiddies.... come with know-it-all attitudes
And have probably spent more time bending the CTO's ear in the last few months than you have in the last few years.
Keep an eye on the commits, and make sure you're there to fix it, when it all goes pear-shaped -- and also make sure (diplomatically) that everyone knows why you had to fix it.
I'd say that affable, parental, mentor-ish derision sounds about the right way to play it ("Yes, they're good kids, and they did try...").
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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If they have real Haskell experience, and could put together a complex program that makes it past Haskell's pedantically strong static typing and solves real business problems, they might come close to justifying a know-it-all attitude.
The catch is that when a lot of people claim Haskell experience, what they really mean is that they wrote quicksort in Haskell, tweeted about it, and then went and wrote an awful blog post about monads.
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I have been trying to learn Haskell for the last two years. I can confidently say I haven't got a clue.
This space for rent
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It's a tough nut to crack.
It can be worth it, though. As with most languages that are very different from those in the mainstream, learning it (or even attempting to) can improve your approach to programming no matter what language you're writing it.
If you're still interested in trying, have you looked at the new Haskell Book?. It is very well written, and a lot of people have found that it made Haskell understandable where lots of other books and blogs had failed. It's a tad expensive, but it's a self published book by two authors who worked very hard to produce good learning material.
I know the idea of paying $59 for an eBook turns a lot of people off, but I bought a copy. Aside from the fact that it's a great book on a topic I wanted to learn more deeply, I also like to reward independent authors who go out on a limb to create resources like this not knowing if they'll sell enough to justify the time investment.
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Cool. I will check it out. I have some experience with the language now but it has a lot of subtleties that will take time to master.
This space for rent
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