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Very true. I'm busy with a VB.NET project right now, at the client's insistence, but I've done the whole architectire and rough proototypes (just to give him screenshots for feedback) in C#, because I'm very good at it, and fast. Then I'll take great pleasure in what will be a very simple and quick rewrite in VB.NET, at it's best. 
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Nagy Vilmos wrote: I wanna go right back to well written, hand rolled functionality
In which case you'd go back to Delphi 3, not VB4.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Nagy Vilmos wrote: And before you nay sayers come in
I get this really. But, that's because I was a C++/MFC developer who was then called upon to do some VB 5.x/6.x at a company. If you come at VB from the right angle it can be a great tool.
You could make API calls anyways and if you understand how to do that from VB, there is great power.
Everything on Windows is really just a wrapper to the API anyways so if VB is your thing then fine.
As long as you do it right.
However, I worked with some other VB devs who were MS certified but they absolutely didn't understand the basics of OOP and what it could do for you, because all they really did was type code.
But that's a problem in any language. Those are the devs that give VB a bad name.
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That!
VB was great and we did some great things with it. The problem I had was, as you said, it was very easy to write rubbish.
veni bibi saltavi
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In C too. And C# (Solid proof: I wrote rubbish in C#). And Java. And PHP. A bad programmer will create crap no matter what tool he/she uses.
CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
"Go ahead, make my day"
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den2k88 wrote: A bad programmer will create crap no matter what tool he/she uses.
Right!
Don't blame the language.
Blame the dev!!!
Harsh, but true.
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Even a really good programmer will sometimes write crap code, if it's quick and disposable. At least I do, things like copy and paste blocks of code everywhere, instead of refactoring to services or superclasses. Yet when I'm done, my client has wireframes2, and I have a very good vision for a real architecture, a much better vision than starting out trying to guess the edge cases, I've already hacked around them and pondered how to deal with them properly.
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Quality of code must be measured against the project requirements and its phase. If it's a study and preliminary phase or a simple tester / utility putting too much effort in proper code factoring is a waste of time and resources, and the quality must be measured differently.
In the end it all depends on the design specifics and finalities, as always in engineering,
CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
"Go ahead, make my day"
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raddevus wrote: But that's a problem in any language. Those are the devs that give VB a bad name.
Not even that. They are actually proud of their disfunctional 'solutions', criticism comes generously for anyone who is not from their tribe while having to take some criticism of course is an outrageous insult.
Ignoring them and not getting involved with their junk is the fairest way to deal with them. Leave them in their misery, if that's what they want.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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CDP1802 wrote: Ignoring them and not getting involved with their junk is the fairest way to deal with them.
Put them in a box and leave them there. Absolutely.
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raddevus wrote: Put them in a box and leave them there
Can't.
It's full of cats.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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You can have it. It's all yours.
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+1. VB used right is still a good choice in 2017. Faster, dirtier and simpler than C# when communicating with C++ and DLLs. For native programmers it's still a boon, while using .NET for the front-end hampers quite a lot.
And writing small testers? Piece of cake! A VB 7 would definetely encounter good acceptance, so much that it could even kill .NET in the non portable / non web applications.
CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
"Go ahead, make my day"
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My one experience of VB was writing a jet DB client. I had a control in DB code with the same name as a column, and in one record, data of the same name in that column.
It didnt work.
That was scary.
Anyway, Java, isnt it suposed to be a standard? 
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SQL is also a standard, but most of the code I've seen is not portable without adjustment. Especially if it comes from SQL Server.
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Nagy Vilmos wrote: And before you nay sayers come in, it was some good stuff we built 20 years ago.
Nothing good was ever done with VB. Let the past go, and don't look back.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Nor with any BASIC at all.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: Nothing good was ever done with VB. Let the past go, and don't look back.
I beg to differ Victoria Bitter[^].
Michael Martin
Australia
"I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible."
- Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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C# is low level enough for all the hand-rolled stuff you could want[1]. It's the CLR that does everything for you, not C#. The syntactic sugar like async/await and other bloody marvelous stuff can all be done the long way, either with the Task Parallel Library, or just plain threads, if you like large bowls of spaghetti lubricated with toffee.
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Pshhht. They won't believe you and will just get upset.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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Nagy Vilmos wrote: I wanna go right back to well written, hand rolled functionality.
10 PRINT "Gin time!"
20 GOTO 10
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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I don't think that it's gin that is hand-rolled.
(And AFAIK, that's not Nagy's poison)
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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Quinctilius Varus, give me back my legions (of the damned)
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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VB = Varus BASIC? That explains a lot.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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CDP1802 wrote: Varus BASIC
I predict that there will never be VB versions 17, 18, or 19.
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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