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I get what you're saying, and I appreciate it. Thanks for the advice.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment?
IMHO, that's a clear signal to move on and seek a position where you will be technically challenged and have the ability to grow. I don't know in what part of the US you're located, but positions like these can readily be found in Silicon Valley, New England and the Seattle area. Of course, they're not limited to these locales, but you're likely to find more choice in these areas.
/ravi
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I'm in the Los Angeles area. And it's not even just technical challenges I'm after... people skills, management skills, anything really I'd like to grow in.
Jeremy Falcon
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Sorry Jeremy I can't help you, I have almost always known I am not the smartest person in the room. I work with some absolutely brilliant minds, the MD also has ability to locate and hire other brilliant minds so I get to see some of them work.
The only thing I bring to the table is experience and the desire to not take any crap from bureaucracy.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Then you are a lucky man.
Jeremy Falcon
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Mycroft Holmes wrote: The only thing I bring to the table is experience and the desire to not take any crap from bureaucracy.
And that is already a good apportation.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Surely, someone on CP has faced this too?
I'll take a stab at this. I've been on both sides of the fence, feeling like the people I'm working with are little better than zombies, and also experiencing people who can think circles around me.
In both situations, I often choose patience. Patience with them, patience with me. And it is NOT easy--I think patience is one of the hardest skills to learn.
What's really interesting though, and this brings me to my second point, is when you're in a room full of basically smart people in their own way, but you know damn well that each of them is performing the equivalent of mental bowel movements at their own pace. Or, less colorful, "digestion." This is an important thing to consider, because everyone digests at a different rate -- taking in the useful information, discarding the non-essential. And to make it worse, the essential and non-essential is different for every person.
Oh yeah, my second point -- communication. The funny thing is, those people that can run circles around me, well, they actually struggle with communication often enough, just as I struggle with communication when I'm running circles around other people. So that's the second hardest skill to learn and requires skill in the first. The patience to communicate clearly.
And the third point is, it's a total waste of energy comparing yourself to others. You are both unique and different (I'll skip the BS talk about everyone having different "gifts" and "everyone has different talents" which in my opinion is BS because so few people actually really reach their talent potential.) Sooo....
Jeremy Falcon wrote: What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
I look at myself (depending on my mood) and accept the challenge to communicate what I think I see so clearly with the patience necessary to wait for others to see it. And the funny thing is, by communication, I actually mean listening, because in order to figure out what, often enough (I'm quite serious) needs to be said in about 10 words and 10 seconds (as opposed to this post) is the result of intense listening to learn where the other person is struggling and to get into their mindset / digestive process.
And when I realize what that is, it's like freaking magic. It's an awesome experience for everyone when the room suddenly phase aligns into a single synchronous wave of understanding. And getting there is so worth it.
The cynic in me doesn't say I'm more gifted or you're more gifted, the cynic starts off with the premise that we're all retarded, and the challenge is to figure out how to bridge the gap between my particular retardation and your particular retardation.
It's a matter of perspective. Do you want to focus on the two people standing on the opposite sides of a chasm, or do you want to focus on the bridge that needs to be built between them?
Damn, I should turn that into a feely-goody business slogan!
Marc
Latest Article - Merkle Trees
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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 Pity I can only vote 5
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Nelek wrote: Pity I can only vote 5
Well, thanks! 
Marc
Latest Article - Merkle Trees
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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So Jeremy, I posted a reply somewhere a bit ago, but Marc, your reply is spot on. BTW Marc, thanks for the countless articles and contributions to this community.
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I read it man. It was a good reply. Thanks again for it.
Jeremy Falcon
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Marc, you know I like you, and for a good reason... you're spot on man. Upon careful reflection over the weekend it simply just dawned on me I'm in a toxic environment. People are moody and angry and negligent here, and over the past year I've quite simply fell into that trap myself. It's bad juju man. I don't want to become that, and my weaknesses have exasperated because of this.
Jeremy Falcon
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Thanks for the response, Jeremy. Given where I work, it's nice to get some positive feedback.
Jeremy Falcon wrote: I'm in a toxic environment.
While I don't have the moody/angry/negligent situation at my work, you're response has helped me realize that I would consider my work environment toxic as well, but for lesser reasons -- cubicle, no windows, no social contact except a Monday meeting and inane lunchtime conversation with the other team members that I don't see otherwise because they are in their cubicles all day, and while my supervisor is awesome (one of the few redeeming things) her supervisor is a control freak with little people skills.
So, while writing my original response, I was also thinking about my own situation and the irony that I had emailed said control freak supervisor with a "you know, we haven't really had a chance to get to know each other, how about lunch some time" bridge building attempt.
Sadly, the response was "I work through lunch, [and reading between the lines] so piss off." 
Marc
Latest Article - Merkle Trees
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Truly wise you are man for being introspective like that, and I suppose I should be grateful then as the people I work with attempt to at least be sociable.... being Hollywood and all. But it's still to the point it's a hit and miss at times. Not that I'm perfect either... far from it. I've just learned some things and gotten over some insecurities that few people in IT ever do. And it's been rough to deal.
Irony is, reading your post now has made me realize to be more positive. Even if I changed environments... or not... or whatever... be grateful you know.
And you can always chat with me if you're feeling the lonely blues man. I totally understand how that goes. Been dealign with that myself here lately when I moved halfway across the country to a land completely different.
Hope it gets better for you.
Jeremy Falcon
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I know about this program witch you can join where you can learn those things. Not anyone can join it though... you have to drink gallons of booze and take copious amount of drugs before you can join. So if you're up for it, go right ahead... P.S. I don't have to give the name of this program, when you're down in the gutter, looking down on everyone else, it will find you. ALSO: As a bonus you will become streetwise as well, isn't this one of the things you also classified as a form of intelligence? NOTE: There is some risks involved in trying this... you will definitely end up in one or more of these states, 1) jails, 2) institutions or 3) death.
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I feel your pain. A high level of wisdom and intelligence is a blessing and a curse. Try to keep to the blessing side. This reminds me of two sayings.
"Ignorance is bliss." It really is. My observation is that the mentally disabled tend to smile more than the average person. I believe they are more in the present moment and not lost in the knowledge of their problems. At a fundamental level, we all just want to be happy. Unbridled information can weigh the mind down and allow the ego to create problems where there are none. Stick to the present moment when possible. Don't expect people to see the world as you do, they never will. Just because you have a fast car doesn't mean traffic will allow for high speeds.
"The more I know, the less I understand." aka "why is such-and-so all elephanted up?" As my world-view expands I see more and more problems with cultural, political and economic (business) systems and am frustrated that folks can't fix them. (Don't they see it?) Mostly, these things are outside my circle of influence. I try to stay inside my circle and accept that which I cannot control.
If your insight super-powers are causing you grief, say your peace (if warranted), count your blessing and let it go.
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You are absolutely 100% correct. I try to tell people that sometimes intelligent folks take longer to get some of the basic things in life, because they're too busy thinking and not taking enough action. So, they in fact become slower... much like a mentally handicapped person is. Ironic, isn't it?
Another comparison I like to make is this... both an extreme genius and a mentally handicapped person can stare at a blade of grass and be amazed. The genius will analyze it, the mentally handicapped person will just observe it. But it's the same act. Starts to make you wonder what intelligence really is in the first place.
Anyway, your post is spot on. I would like to expand further on it, but alas it's time for work.
Jeremy Falcon
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“For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.”
― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
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Message Closed
modified 27-Mar-17 13:57pm.
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You assume too much and this seems more destructive condensation than constructive feedback. Might be worthwhile gleaning from the other posts here to get a feel for their tone. I'm learning to avoid toxic people now so I no longer become one, and you sir are such. Have a nice day.
Jeremy Falcon
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I see your point and have deleted my comment. I was making assumption, and interpreting this subject in a negative light. There is nothing in the topic that would convey the... I suppose superiority complex or egotism I was presuming. Considering this is the Lounge where I come to see light, good-natured, and entertaining conversations I should not have gone that direction.
My experience with smartest person in the room usually has a person who thinks it is them and is condescending to others. I automatically, and probably incorrectly, placed OP in that group instead of the preferred group where the truly smartest person makes others feel as though they are by being open-minded and encouraging instead of overbearing or patronizing. I should remember to take the second group with me instead of the first.
Thank you, I did not even realize I was being so negative and pessimistic. I need to pickup a Terry Pratchett or Douglas Adams tonight and reboot in a better mindset tomorrow.
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Then you are a smart cookie. And I totally get it. I've been doing that myself quite a lot for the past year. Funny how interpretation works... especially over such a dry medium as the web.
Perhaps I should've posted it in the SB, but I at least genuinely wanted some folks to see it. Anywho, it's all good.
And you're absolutely correct about your experiences. I couldn't agree with you more. Which is why I have to keep myself in check to make sure it's not ego talking. Which I'm totally susceptible to.
Jeremy Falcon
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Aside from the suggestion to get involved in side projects, I'm getting the sense you may not have gotten a satisfying response yet, so I'll throw my two cents in.
Share and teach what you know
You could use the excess intellectual bandwidth to find ways to help others past the "dazed and confused" state they are in. Find ways to make what you're doing more clear, concise and engaging. This in itself can be challenging. It's one thing to design and implement complex solutions which you understand, but it's something completely different to create/design/implement solutions which are simple, elegant and accessible to others. I'm not suggesting you dumb down what you do, but rather, play to the room. If the room isn't at your level, then work on getting them there. If your peers aren't willing to try and get passed the "dazed and confused" stage, that indicates a problem of the will and not necessarily intellect. If this is the case, then find somewhere that a)Has people that are closer to your level or b)Has people that are open to learning.
The developers I've admired and respected most have been the ones that have been not only been incredibly intelligent, but who also had a desire to share and teach others.
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You are correct sir. It turns out I'm in a bit of a toxic environment, and I do agree it goes back to poor will. As such, I believe the best course is to simply change environments and then take heed to what you're saying. I don't want to be toxic anymore.
Jeremy Falcon
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