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Interesting. I'm going through the same pain and am actually thinking of just switching to native app development. It seems like a whole lot of loops to jump through that, frankly, shouldn't be there.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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I find this surprising. I've been doing Xamarin development for a while now and don't see any of these issues. The problem most people have is that they rely on the native Android emulator; this is a slow beast and you're much better off using the x86 emulator.
This space for rent
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It wasn't the emulator that was an issue (and to be honest I didn't see a huge difference between the Android one in 2015 and the MS one in 2017 - though I barely used them).
The main issue was that things simply didn't build. I would fire up VS 2015, create a new project from their templates, and they would not even compile.
I had some other issues[^] with iOS, and the Android part seemed a long series of installing 50 SDKs all named the same without any real guidance on what was actually needed. 40Gb later and that seemed to sort itself out.
I do not have my head wrapped around Xamarin forms even vaguely at this point, and the demo apps I've tried (mainly involving bluetooth) just don't work.
My wild guesses as to the issues
- Android moves quickly and keeping up with requirements makes life hard for Xamarin, hence the shotgun approach.
- Xamarin tries to use what the other vendors provide meaning they can't provide a neat, integrated "we'll set this all up for you" experience
- Dealing with XCode is just going to be painful. I'm sure that's not by mistake
- The native iOS/Android community has way more mature and stable examples than the Xamarin community. It's just the nature of the beast
So I'm heading to native so that
a) I can just get started
b) I can lean on lots of existing code samples
c) I can understand what's actually happening before I abstract it all using Xamarin
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Maybe it's because I've used XAML for years now that I find Xamarin Forms simple to grok. I have started on an unofficial Code Project app, using Forms, that I will be writing an article about. It is the final part of the CP API series I started before, and brings the various parts together. Hopefully that will help you to grok how Forms works by the end; along with how to drop back to platform specific when necessary.
This space for rent
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Chris Maunder wrote: I'm going through the same pain and am actually thinking of just switching to native app development.
That's exactly why I was trying out VS 2017...to see if the dream is true -- write once, run anywhere.
I've done native Android and iOS apps and each are painful in their own way but unless VS 2017 / Xamarin can really allow me to build apps with the same power then jumping through hoops to create them there doesn't get me much.
I feel like I might get to a place with Xamarin where there is functionality that I'd need to customize anyways. However, once I got it to build in VS 2017 and run properly, it was enticing.
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First things first... It's a write once (almost) run everywhere solution (you have to build for each platform, it is only hidden from you by the environment).
Do you have web development experience? If so, you may try Cordova...
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote: Do you have web development experience? If so, you may try Cordova..
I do and thanks for mentioning that.
I was mostly checking out VS 2017 to see how smooth it all works for creating apps across platforms.
In most cases I find that there are just a lot of hoops to jump through.
At some point, I just think, well just write the app natively on each if this "write once, run everywhere" thing has so much to customize anyways.
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FWIW my employer does a fair amount of Xamarin. They've told me that the pure runs everywhere Xamarin.Forms UI library is too limited in its ability to customize how UI controls look and function to be useful in anything but the narrowest cases. Instead what my coworkers do is build a shared backend with all the business logic (and a data layer shared with the server if it's done in .net); and then build separate nativish UIs using Xamarin.IOS and Xamarin.Android (C# wrappers of the platforms native components).
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Very interesting and that is why I was examining how Xamarin really works also.
Again, there are still hoops to jump through. I know that is basically always the case with multi-platform, but again I was just dreaming. 
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I feel your pain! I've tried to Xamarin Forms for years, but it never worked until VS2017, but worked is somewhat a misnomer.
- The connection between building, running and the emulator is so strange that it too a long time before I figured out how to effectively make this process work consistently. I simply run the emulator first before ever trying to debug and I get better results, but it's still very slow.
- Watch out where you have your project. They seem to document this nowhere, but I moved a project and it never generated the debug(mdb) file after the move. I looked everywhere with no luck, only to find a post about it having path problems. It appears that if your path has a "$" in it, the debug file won't be generated... yikes!!!
- For some strange reason Xamarin Forms XAML decided to do things differently from Microsoft XAML, go figure. For instance, instead of StackPanel, they use Stack Layout, but that's the least of the offenses, so watch out.
Other than that, I've been able to finally develop in a consistent fashion and am now just trying new things in an attempt to jump start the development of my first mobile app.
Good Luck!
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Thanks for chiming in.
Great info. I will watch for those things.
I was thinking about it today and there are so many differences between iOS and Android (my two main concerns) that it probably doesn't matter anyways.
Here are a couple of examples of what I mean.
Recently I wrote an app that receives SMS text messages and uses Text-To-Speech (TTS) to read them to you (Android).
Android Phone Reads SMS (Txt) Messages To You[^]
However, you cannot get received SMS messages like that on iOS anyways.
Also TTS is completely different on iOS. So that app is out.
Also, the app I originally wrote on all 4 (Windows, Web, Android, iOS) platforms the old way uses some interesting Canvas type of elements that are not going to be handled by Xamarin.
C'YaPass - Android @ Play[^]
CYaPass on the App Store[^]
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So, they based it on Clippy then? 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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"If Clippy had a japanese daughter"
I only have a signature in order to let @DalekDave follow my posts.
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Seems to me to be, at best, a PR stunt by the developers to impress everyone with how great an AI they made.
The world is so cynical. It seems I'm starting to embrace the cynicism as a way of life. I don't know if I can go on . . .
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Ya, agree. I thought ai was to make things better, not the same as - waste of bloody time if zero gain.
If we wanted entities equivalent to humans there's a much more fun way to make those, even better if done in practice mode only (that 9 month later consequence of doing it for real will hamper practice sessions for years.)
Sin tack
the any key okay
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Lopatir wrote: practice mode only (that 9 month later consequence of doing it for real will hamper practice sessions for years.)
The Japanese have a solution for that, too! Using an analogy to their kissing device[^], which, using the Japanese gift for embellishment, will be developed to replace the inflatable plastic doll.
Japan's birthrate is the lowest in the world[^] - "everything happens for a reason" never had a more effective advocate.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Glad "she" didn't go ballistic.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote: go ballistic
That's something related to US shooting ranges schools.
I only have a signature in order to let @DalekDave follow my posts.
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I was thinking more like War Games.
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I make minor changes to code, try to build, Mama opens a file dialogue: Mama wants to save the file; but, Mama, the file no can save ... already open that file.
So, clean and clean project, until Mama sees no shyte on my sneakers ... then build Bill can.
K.D. Lang's ensorcelling song keeps playing in my head: [^] ... only: I am hearing "constant cleaning" instead of "constant craving."
Yes, I have checked every possible build setting (these are WinForms app); this happens with or without having Class Libraries I am developing as part of the App which are external to the WinForms Project.
Not having acquired fresh soy milk today, and out of the divine muddy excrescence of the female Palm tree (sugar): I may be in withdrawal 
«When I consider my brief span of life, swallowed up in an eternity before and after, the little space I fill, and even can see, engulfed in the infinite immensity of spaces of which I am ignorant, and which know me not, I am frightened, and am astonished at being here rather than there; for there is no reason why here rather than there, now rather than then.» Blaise Pascal
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So a few years back I wanted to participate in some annual event, a midsummer night walk.
Registered on the website, something went wrong, and suddenly I joined a team on the other side of the country.
Back then I could also change the names and emails of the group members, people I didn't know and that I joined by accident  
For some reason I lost my password and requested a new one. They sent me my own password in an email...
So accounts are publicly editable (that's a whole new level of security breach) and passwords are stored unencrypted (or at least an easily reversible encryption).
So now, a few years later, I want to participate again.
Went to the website, requested my password (that I changed to something I couldn't remember, just like the rest of my info) and they sent me an email. Except I never got the email.
So I just created a new account, requested a new password again (just to check if they fixed it) and now my old password is invalid, but they also haven't sent me an email.
Good job, within five minutes after registering I'm locked out again
What the hell are these "developers" doing? 
Seriously, my grandma could've done a better job and she only just learned how to open Google.
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Sander Rossel wrote: What the hell are these "developers" doing?
Posting their rubbish code in QA and then ignoring every piece of advice they are given.
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Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe the people in QA are the smarter ones?
At least they know how to subscribe to a website, find the correct forum, and post a question.
A scary thought...
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Sander Rossel wrote: maybe the people in QA are the smarter ones
Nooooo ...
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