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thanks ! Bill
«... thank the gods that they have made you superior to those events which they have not placed within your own control, rendered you accountable for that only which is within you own control For what, then, have they made you responsible? For that which is alone in your own power—a right use of things as they appear.» Discourses of Epictetus Book I:12
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Angular can become spaghetti if you start with a small example and keep adding; fed by webservices, there's a clear layer between "raw data" and your UI templates, and makes it easy to add AJAX functionality to a webpage.
Node.js is for serverside javascript - which feels weird to me, since we have access to tools that perform better on the server.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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thanks, Bill
«... thank the gods that they have made you superior to those events which they have not placed within your own control, rendered you accountable for that only which is within you own control For what, then, have they made you responsible? For that which is alone in your own power—a right use of things as they appear.» Discourses of Epictetus Book I:12
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Angular has powers, but for the last few months we ar working with it I got a very bad feeling about possible disaster cases on production...
While it is very easy to get messy code, you have to work harder than ever in the last two decades to keep your flow clean... And I didn't mentioned the final result and deployment of small changes on a page/component level...
I would not advise no-one to start a big scale project using it, but can be good for something simple and short...
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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thanks, Bill
«... thank the gods that they have made you superior to those events which they have not placed within your own control, rendered you accountable for that only which is within you own control For what, then, have they made you responsible? For that which is alone in your own power—a right use of things as they appear.» Discourses of Epictetus Book I:12
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Assuming you mean Ionic[^]?
It's a pretty solid stack for PWA development - I've started using it for most of my freelance PWA contracts. Ionic's cloud services in particular are brilliant; their native apps for deploying & testing code locally (with hot reloading etc) are fantastic. 
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A.
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thanks, Bill
«... thank the gods that they have made you superior to those events which they have not placed within your own control, rendered you accountable for that only which is within you own control For what, then, have they made you responsible? For that which is alone in your own power—a right use of things as they appear.» Discourses of Epictetus Book I:12
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Advice (which you probably shouldn't follow):
Pick a stack and learn in. The devil you know, etc...
Personally, I refuse to touch node.js Why should I write server-side code in a crufty language when I have a great language (C#) that I can use instead?
Angular. One question-why? I got turned off from even looking at Angular when they announced version x+1 would make breaking changes to version x. Why? And then there's a lot of negative reviews about it.
TypeScript -- would like to at least dabble in it, but every time I think about starting that endeavor, I can't get past the "why?" I can't convince myself that learning another layer, with its own quirks, is actually any better than spending my time really understanding Javascript and ECM6.
Ionic? Sigh. Yet another framework to choose from, and at this point I've ditched them all. Come on people, how hard is it to write simple (and actually elegant) Javascript and achieve bidirectional realtime data exchange between the server and the browser with AJAX and websockets?
Like I said, probably advice you shouldn't follow. 
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Your advice is always appreciated, Marc !
I'm, so far, allergic to Stacks, but may have to get over that.
TypeScript I see as a "win" because it lets me leverage my existing C# skills, and OOP habits, and it has got support for the future (unless MS screws it up).
I'm looking at Xamarin Forms ... encouraged by what Ravi Bhavani has posted.
cheers, Bill
«... thank the gods that they have made you superior to those events which they have not placed within your own control, rendered you accountable for that only which is within you own control For what, then, have they made you responsible? For that which is alone in your own power—a right use of things as they appear.» Discourses of Epictetus Book I:12
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Marc Clifton wrote: Personally, I refuse to touch node.js Why should I write server-side code in a crufty language when I have a great language (C#) that I can use instead?
I wish someone had said that to me before I started doing NodeJS. The only things NodeJS gives you is access to a repository of packages that nobody vets for quality, and access to a pool of self taught frontend developers who don't know any language but JavaScript.
Even after wrapping it in TypeScript NodeJS is still a nightmare. There's nothing built into typescript to give you a
JSON.parse<T>() sort of function so to write anything that doesn't just fail you've still got to write the code toe sanitize all inputs. If you're writing that kind of code you may as well just give up and program in C, at least then you'd get to feel hardcore.
Marc Clifton wrote: I got turned off from even looking at Angular when they announced version x+1 would make breaking changes to version x. Why?
They needed to make breaking changes because they realised how much of a mess it was, I don't know if the new one is any better. If you understand the newer parts of W3C specs and consider how much functionality you actually use from a frontend framework, you quickly realise that there's not any compelling reasons to use one.
Marc Clifton wrote: Come on people, how hard is it to write simple (and actually elegant) Javascript and achieve bidirectional realtime data exchange between the server and the browser with AJAX and websockets?
I'm actually hard pressed to find any javascript devs who will even consider WebSockets, or use XHR directly. It's almost as rare as finding front-end web developers who can write CSS without copy pasting everywhere.
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I'm about 6 months into a new job where we use Angular 4 w TypeScript. I came from a WPF background with very little web dev experience. TypeScript for me is much nicer to work with than JS / JQuery, but I'd still recommend knowing some of that as TS can hide some of the fundamentals. Although I can't really compare it experience wise with other frameworks I like Angular 4, but it's not without it's issues e.g. a lot of 'wiring up' to add new components. But I think it's at least worth a look if you are interested.
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Thanks, Jacquers !
«... thank the gods that they have made you superior to those events which they have not placed within your own control, rendered you accountable for that only which is within you own control For what, then, have they made you responsible? For that which is alone in your own power—a right use of things as they appear.» Discourses of Epictetus Book I:12
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Ionic -- ?
Node/Angular: Win10 Properties request on the node_modules folder of my first toy Angular CLI project reveals that the setup step installed a mere 26,526 files. But developing is getting easier. Right? I mean, my own code is 8 smallish files.
Typescript: Fabulous for bringing the rule of typed OO programming to the wild west of JS. If you know something like C# then Typescript is a few days of learning to be productive.
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I like the Animation (from a technical view)
It does not solve my Problem, but it answers my question
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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It does not solve my Problem, but it answers my question
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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I read quite a bit and I read a lot of computer history because I find what the people went through fascinating. They built amazing technology out of nothing but copper wires.
I was quite shocked when I stumbled upon this book at Barnes & Noble at lunch today.
The Friendly Orange Glow: The Untold Story of the PLATO System and the Dawn of Cyberculture[^]
That system had a touch screen in 1973 or so. Much more interesting things in there. They had developed Instant Messaging back then. Wow.
Looks like a really interesting read.
EDIT
Here's a bit of the summary:
amazon summary: At a time when Steve Jobs was only a teenager and Mark Zuckerberg wasn’t even born, a group of visionary engineers and designers—some of them only high school students—in the late 1960s and 1970s created a computer system called PLATO, which was light-years ahead in experimenting with how people would learn, engage, communicate, and play through connected computers. Not only did PLATO engineers make significant hardware breakthroughs with plasma displays and touch screens but PLATO programmers also came up with a long list of software innovations: chat rooms, instant messaging, message boards, screen savers, multiplayer games, online newspapers, interactive fiction, and emoticons.
modified 23-Feb-18 15:11pm.
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Platonic 
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Purely. 
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A system which was allegorically settled in a cave? I may have heard about it, a long time ago.
"I'm neither for nor against, on the contrary." John Middle
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Yep. I remember reading about it in the 60s, we had a manual which concentrated on (my befuddled elderly brain informs me) the computer aided learning aspects. I remember being impressed, but, given the cost of a suitable mainframe, wondered how it would ever be affordable. 
Never came across it again. Perhaps it was just too expensive a project that for us Brits.
Once the Swinging Sixties were over (1967), the White Heat of Technology chilled somewhat.
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raddevus wrote: Have you heard of the PLATO system?
Yes. I used it.
Great fun to play Star Trek with 32 other people across the country on a Friday night. Four teams of Federation, Klingon, Orion and Romulan. Each ship type had different abilities.
Touch screen didn't get used at all in that game nor much in general. As I recall it was very course, something like maybe 8 by 8 grid was the most resolution possible.
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