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GeneralRe: What happened to engineering? Pin
Member 1073194424-Dec-18 8:11
Member 1073194424-Dec-18 8:11 
GeneralRe: What happened to engineering? Pin
Munchies_Matt24-Dec-18 8:13
Munchies_Matt24-Dec-18 8:13 
AnswerRe: What happened to engineering? Pin
sasadler24-Dec-18 5:58
sasadler24-Dec-18 5:58 
GeneralRe: What happened to engineering? Pin
Member 1073194424-Dec-18 9:34
Member 1073194424-Dec-18 9:34 
GeneralRe: What happened to engineering? Pin
CPallini25-Dec-18 9:38
mveCPallini25-Dec-18 9:38 
AnswerRe: What happened to engineering? Pin
James Lonero25-Dec-18 8:03
James Lonero25-Dec-18 8:03 
GeneralRe: What happened to engineering? Pin
CPallini25-Dec-18 9:43
mveCPallini25-Dec-18 9:43 
AnswerRe: What happened to engineering? Pin
kalberts25-Dec-18 11:31
kalberts25-Dec-18 11:31 
Either, the great majority of the repliers to your post didn't understand what you were referring to, or, if they did, made rather indirect and obscure followups Smile | :)

Or possibly it is me misunderstanding...

In the days of traditional engineering, you studied the requirements, architected the principal aspects of a solution, then went on to designing how you would build a real world solution, and then, when you knew and had documented how to do the building, you set off to do that.

"Software engineering" today is "Well, let's start with 'int main(void) { return 0; }', and develop it further from that point on. ... Done; we have something running. Now, tell me what your problem is!"

The current plus-word for lack of architecture, design and implementation plan is "agile". Any trace of planning is labeled with the double-minus-term "waterfall method", that noone dares to touch with a ten foot pole. "Documentation" is known as "the source code".

You may (mentally - please don't try it in real life) imagine "agile" building of a new house: Let's start digging a hole in ground, so we can use that as a starting point for a concrete foundation. Once we've got the outer walls in place, we can start making a basement floor plan. Since we don't know yet where we will need water, we will simply label the drilling of a hole through the outer wall for the water pipe as a "technical debt"...

Your new GPS watch, blood pressure monitor, TV soundbar or vacuum cleaner rarely fail mechanically. They fail from extremely poor and uncoordinated software development. Even though I am a software guy myself, I fully support the hardware guys claiming that no matter how good quality the hardware is, the software guys (that is us!) manage to mess it up.

An essential part of it is that SW people generally Know The Answer. They have very little tradition for asking the user about his functional needs, work patterns, terminology etc: The SW guys sit in their ivory tower deciding what the user shall like. For the HW part, they don't look at how the hardware actually works, how it is intended to be used, but go ahead programming for how they think the hardware should work, in their opinion, and then they start bitching when it is different.

I know from personal experience, the most explicit one on a library software project when I tried to bring forth some wishes from the libarians themselves, but was cut off by the project leader: "F**k the librarians!"

Yes, there are exceptions: Some of the really huge corportations became huge by actally working together with users to create proper architectures, designs and implementations. Companies like IBM and MS has used large test panels of users, capturing thousands of hours of video and countless megabytes of logs to decide between different choices. Which open source project ever did that? (Generally, they made a direct clone of a product in the market, and when MS, say, decided from their video captures that a UI change would reduce the frequency of user errors, the open source people bitched because then their clone would be looking outdated until they managed to clone the new UI as well...)

I have rejected a quite long list of free, open source software, and spent hundreds of dollars on commercial products that obviously were developed together with users: Steinberg WaveLab as a sound editor and CD authoring package. Adobe CS for video and photo. SketchUp origniated as a professional tool (I bought it before it was bought by Google and provided for free). For years I fought with OpenOffice/LibreOffice, but had to give up: The software is plain rotten compared to MSO, maybe not in socalled "code quality", but in what it gives me as a user (do I need to say more than "help system" for an example?

And SW people all do it in their own way - even wihtin a single project. I replaced my car radio wiht a modern digital one, offering a zillion functions. Each functional area has a menu system, selection logic, cancel logic etc. completely different from the others (e.g. four different menu systems). Make selections in the wrong order, and the radio locks up. The only way to reset the radio is by turning off the car's ignition: The radio does have a "power off", but only as a software button that you can't get at when it is locked up...

Over the years, I have become more and more ashamed over the typical product quality delivered by my own profession.
GeneralRe: What happened to engineering? Pin
CPallini25-Dec-18 12:39
mveCPallini25-Dec-18 12:39 
GeneralI was sent this, and... Pin
OriginalGriff22-Dec-18 23:45
mveOriginalGriff22-Dec-18 23:45 
GeneralRe: I was sent this, and... Pin
PIEBALDconsult23-Dec-18 11:51
mvePIEBALDconsult23-Dec-18 11:51 
JokeHiding? Pin
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter22-Dec-18 22:33
professionalKornfeld Eliyahu Peter22-Dec-18 22:33 
GeneralI am well aware 827404512906727 is your passphrases. Pin
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter22-Dec-18 20:23
professionalKornfeld Eliyahu Peter22-Dec-18 20:23 
GeneralRe: I am well aware 827404512906727 is your passphrases. Pin
OriginalGriff22-Dec-18 21:13
mveOriginalGriff22-Dec-18 21:13 
JokeRe: I am well aware 827404512906727 is your passphrases. Pin
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter22-Dec-18 21:47
professionalKornfeld Eliyahu Peter22-Dec-18 21:47 
GeneralRe: I am well aware 827404512906727 is your passphrases. Pin
Pete O'Hanlon23-Dec-18 1:47
mvePete O'Hanlon23-Dec-18 1:47 
GeneralRe: I am well aware 827404512906727 is your passphrases. Pin
OriginalGriff23-Dec-18 3:55
mveOriginalGriff23-Dec-18 3:55 
GeneralRe: I am well aware 827404512906727 is your passphrases. Pin
kmoorevs23-Dec-18 4:42
kmoorevs23-Dec-18 4:42 
GeneralRe: I am well aware 827404512906727 is your passphrases. Pin
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter23-Dec-18 6:11
professionalKornfeld Eliyahu Peter23-Dec-18 6:11 
GeneralRe: I am well aware 827404512906727 is your passphrases. Pin
#realJSOP23-Dec-18 7:04
professional#realJSOP23-Dec-18 7:04 
GeneralRe: I am well aware 827404512906727 is your passphrases. Pin
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter23-Dec-18 7:22
professionalKornfeld Eliyahu Peter23-Dec-18 7:22 
GeneralRe: I am well aware 827404512906727 is your passphrases. Pin
Daniel Pfeffer23-Dec-18 22:44
professionalDaniel Pfeffer23-Dec-18 22:44 
GeneralRe: I am well aware 827404512906727 is your passphrases. Pin
Member 1073194424-Dec-18 8:21
Member 1073194424-Dec-18 8:21 
GeneralRe: I am well aware 827404512906727 is your passphrases. Pin
GuyThiebaut27-Dec-18 6:37
professionalGuyThiebaut27-Dec-18 6:37 
JokeSo, I explained Xamarin to my girl Pin
Afzaal Ahmad Zeeshan22-Dec-18 5:49
professionalAfzaal Ahmad Zeeshan22-Dec-18 5:49 

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