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ZurdoDev wrote: testing
The problem with the term "test" is that when it is used in the media there is no information provided relating to the specifics of the clinical test.
As an example - if we are talking about a PCR test, the number of cycles carried out will have a big effect in detection of the virus.
Are all laboratories using the same number of cycles?
Also is there an agreed upon primer sequence design that all PCR tests for sars-cov-2 use and agree upon?
I am going to guess that there is no one standard all testers adhere to with regards to primers or cycles - which would result in different test protocols between countries and possibly even within countries.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Quite probably. But do you think that accounts for the different experiences of those infected or are you maybe suggesting that we are getting more false positives in the US testing?
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False positive is a whole polarised political debate in and of itself unfortunately.
I just have a bit of a bee in my bonnet over the media's use of the term test and the over-simplification of the idea that a clinical test produces a binary answer and that there is an agreed upon gold-standard for testing sars-cov-2.
But it just feels like the words "test, test, test" that were uttered by the head of the WHO, over-simplify what can be a rather complex and nuanced process, both with the actual protocol of the test and with the interpretation of the results.
I don't know why people have different experiences and it would be good to be able to have a lot of these sorts of questions answered, although I imagine the answers would probably be "it depends.." as are a lot of answers in the world of medicine.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Good points.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Testing, per say, doesn't directly help anything. However, let's presume that in a given local they use the same test (or mix of tests). What then?
Well - the rate of positives is an indication of how well the spread is being contained. Sure, eventually everyone will get it (or maybe a vaccine), but the point with testing is not direct prevention.
It's to determine how to set the parameters to avoid overloading the medical care system.
An antibody test that implies immunity would be useful in allowing those who are found to be immune (by whatever means) can modify their behavior to take advantage of their protected status - and hopefully not be jerks and become second-hand spreaders.
Eventually, I hypothesize, the population will be fully exposed and it will then be left as a childhood disease - the only non-immune part of the population at that time - and small children, although virulent spreaders, rarely suffer from the disease.
Until then, however, I err on the side of living cautiously whilst awaiting a real breaktrhough.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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The difficulty with interpreting the PCR test is that it doesn't tell you if a person has the active virus within them.
The PCR test does not test for the presence of the virus but rather what it tells you is that an RNA sequence which matches the sequence the primers are designed for exists within the person tested.
In other words, one could have had the virus a year ago and have fragments of the virus still within oneself and the PCR test could still amplify those fragments to return a positive test.
From what I understand the CFR if fairly low for covid-19, but it varies so widely from 0.06% in Singapore to 18.94% in France that I really do wonder if different countries are measuring the same things Global Covid-19 Case Fatality Rates - CEBM[^]
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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GuyThiebaut wrote: The problem with the term "test" is that when it is used in the media there is no information provided relating to the specifics of the clinical test.
In the same vein: At first nobody was getting tested...the published figures were for hospitalization cases. Nowadays if anyone's infected - whether they even feel any symptom or not - they're counted.
What also skews the numbers is that not every clinic in every region tracks individuals, and then share that information with each other. If you get tested multiple times at multiple locations, and you're testing positive, you're counted as that many cases.
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I've heard that there's an European strand of the virus; I cannot find a good or more recent reference, but this one seems to be good.
It was told it was more virulent than what got in the US (west coast) and that's why east coast US got more cases initially.
I'd rather be phishing!
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Very interesting, thanks. I hadn't seen that. But that makes sense.
I'm no epidemiologist but I imagine that each year there will be slightly different Covid strains, just like the "regular" flu does now. And when they do get a vaccine will it be as inefficient as the flu vaccines are now?
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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That's my take and what I've heard from so-called "experts".
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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It's not like the real scientists don't know the problem. (Here)[^]
It's a matter of fighting a battle between science and political ambition. The constant contradictions do just what is expected, and I fear, what was intended: weaken peoples faith in institutions in which they used to have trust.
Political appointees should be banished. Not only on this point but on so many incredibly disastrous results that have happened which they institute, aid, and/or abet.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Yeah, the self-appointed "experts" are doing us all a disservice.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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No - not the self appointed ones. We're talking patronage and cronyism.
For example, in the US, today, the appointed head(s) of some governmental departments are people who spent their careers fighting that(those) departments. Progress rolled back to increase profits. Public good and long term planning be damned.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I'm not sure what is worse. What you describe or people who get in there and treat it as their little fiefdom / kingdom and act as if they are GOD himself.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Actually, what you say is part of the story. Sometimes in the background - in the view of supporters without the need to say it outright by the leader. Basically, though, when someone keeps declaring themselves and their deeds as "Perfect" - we can tend to think the implication of deity is there.
Somehow a mixture of "1984" double-think and that "Cult of Personality" song have moved in on us - supported by that staunch and every ready defender of the all that is good:
"The Armies of the Stupid Faithful Stupid Faithful . . . "
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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See here (only a few posts up): The Lounge[^]
I don't know anyone, directly, who's had it. On the other hand, an acquaintance lost three friends - clearly on the high side.
Empirical data (observation) point to most people not getting very ill at all - nearly half with no symptoms. But of those that do, it can be a real bitch. Even those that recover may have long term lingering effects. Although bacterial, Chicken Pox and Lyme Disease both stay alive and dormant in one's system for a lifetime. Well, dormant most of the time.
But here's the thing: how many lives are lost with a 1% death rate in just the US? over 3.5 million! Even a tenth of that, with the entire population susceptible, where taking about a horrible number of deaths. Five or six Vietnam War's worth. Probably outstripping all US wars aside from the Civil war.
As for your food hypothesis: if it is correct I'm F***ed! Most of the worst fast food is of a nature that I can't won't eat it. Mainly Taco Bell Bean Burritos and heaven's gift to humanity, Pizza.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Well, there are about 7.5 million cases and around 200K death.
So that's 200000/7500000 = 0.0267.
And 0.0267 * 100 = 2.67%.
So let's say around 3% dies.
For a certain percentage it's a (very) nasty flu-like disease.
And for everyone else it's a mild flu or even nothing.
Even if that last part is only 10%, that still means 750K people experience little to no problems.
That last part is far bigger than 10% though, I don't have numbers, but I think most people are good.
The problem is that those 3% that die need to be hospitalized, but we don't have that capacity, making it all a very nasty business with corpses in the street and whatnot.
ZurdoDev wrote: maybe it's because American's eat so much junk food our immune systems are stronger?
Actually, that 3% mortality rate is pretty high because you guys eat so much junkfood.
That stuff really isn't good for your immune system...
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Sander Rossel wrote: but we don't have that capacity
That stinks. The US has not had that problem.
Sander Rossel wrote: That stuff really isn't good for your immune system...
I know. I was making a funny. 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Quote: That stinks. The US has not had that problem.
FTFY - you haven't watched all the news, have you?
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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� Forogar � wrote: you haven't watched all the news, have you?
Thank goodness no. But there was some concern over that in the beginning and all the talk was about "flatten the curve" and that was done long ago and hospitals have not since had that problem.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: there was some concern over that in the beginning and all the talk was about "flatten the curve"
Yeah, in states like NY, NJ, CT.
Meanwhile, the nitwits in states like GA, FL, TX, . . . . etc. are busy generating their own spikes. Rising death rates and all . . . but you, with your "thank goodness" don't watch the news. Do you then form your opinions via wishful thinking or the other 'genius' (he told us he was one) who just knows better as he creates his own reality and the believers do what believers do.
A suppose about a thousand deaths per day isn't much by your standards.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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You have TDS bad. I suggest you get it looked at. Although there is no known cure right now.
Seriously. What the heck is your response about? None of it makes any sense. You're just ranting like a TDS leftist.
Whatever, it's entertaining since you are so wrong and don't know anything about me yet pretend to know so much.
 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: TDS leftist.
Oh my - we have a label - and since you don't like reality you know it must be manufactured by "the LEFT" !
ZurdoDev wrote: you are so wrong and don't know anything about me yet pretend to know so much.
Here, as you almost invariably are, you are wrong yet again.
I know a lot about you - as do others who read your posts: for you define yourself with each of them. No one gives a flying f*** what you think yourself to be in your own imaginings. You are who you show yourself to be.
So stop that worn out and preposterous whine of me (or anyone elsed) not knowing anything about you.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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You are a funny old man.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: not knowing anything about you.
Then prove it. List some things you know about me.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Total Synopsis:
Right wing TROLL wallowing in cherry-picked ignorance
Yeah - that about sums it up.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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