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charlieg wrote: I actually think that behind the scenes MS is desperately trying to shore up security.
Are you suggesting that's a bad thing?
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Not at all. I think they need all the help they can get. 
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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TPM 2 is required, as is secure boot.
The latest tool tells you why your system doesn't meet the minimums: CHecker[^]
My desktop fails, my Surface passes.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Technically, it almost does. It tells me that my processor is not supported, but doesn't say why. So 50/50 
Charlie Gilley
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
modified 1-Oct-21 9:30am.
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It's so that at some theoretical point in the future they can drop support for older CPU drivers and tell anyone who whines "sorry but you were never officially supported, get :elephant;ed!".
The sad/stupid part is that all the people who ignored the warnings will still make a giant stink whenever MS does pull the plug anyway, helped by team "MS sucks on twitface and in the press"; but they'll still have to pay the support tax for maintaining all the obsolete driver models/etc until then. Deleting zillions of lines of legacy code from the W11 codebase would shrink installs sizes, maintenance costs, and hostile attack surfaces today. IF the reason they're not doing it now is to maintain similarity with the W10 codebase to share as many patches as possible; then say so and put the chopping block on the calendar for the major update after W10 is EOL in 4 years.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
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All well said and good. But Microsoft brings this on themselves by flat out tossing people under the bus. Case in point - *their* 7th gen processor is supported, all the others aren't. As far as drivers, 95% of that belongs to the OEMs.
I won't even get started on their asinine reboot policies.... I've ranted on those before.
So, sorry, I'm not sympathetic. Yes people will complain about change, but there is no need to make it this painful. To MS' credit, they are providing a manual approach.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Can't disagree with your asement of how they're doing even though I think I understand what's behind it; MS seems to've reverted back to the old comic where their org chart was drawn as several armed camps all shooting at each other.
as far as this goes:
charlieg wrote: Case in point - *their* 7th gen processor is supported, all the others aren't. As far as drivers, 95% of that belongs to the OEMs.
drivers belonging to the OEMs is exactly the point. MS the the OEM for the Surface products. They can write new model drivers for it; other OEMs don't and won't give an ![Elephant | [mastadon]](https://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/Images/elephant.gif) about old hardware if it requires more work than changing a BIOS default from off to on (eg soft TPM support) and publishing a new binary.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
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Mmmm...
I would buy new hardware, IF (and a BIG IF) they would really drop all the legacy crap and come with a new well tested PC operating system, improving all the things they do know that don't work properly, leaving behind all that sh1t about the multiplatform and all the dummy things they have done lately.
Then... I would really buy new hardware, and I would do it happily.
But... as they are doing things lately... I say, screw you MS. I am not going to buy new hardware for you to use me as beta (or alpha, who knows) tester.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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That tool unfortunately does not work on domain-managed machines. Because if you're the one managing updates and want to test eligibility before rollout, well, screw you. Amazing.
Luca
The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance. -- Wing Commander IV
En Það Besta Sem Guð Hefur Skapað, Er Nýr Dagur.
(But the best thing God has created, is a New Day.)
-- Sigur Ròs - Viðrar vel til loftárása
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So Dell is probably saying: "is this a great world or what?"
>64
If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
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well I uncovered some additional information. MS wants processors that support VBS, HVCI and something called MBEC. I think the HVCI has something to do with the processor level firmware attacks that were widely publicized a couple of years back. When a fix was put in, there was a huge performance penalty, really pissing off cloud users.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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MBEC = Marvelously Bloated Energy Consumption 
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Intel added a set of instructions in their 11th generation processors that allow quick and easy virtualization of all applications. Windows 11 depends on these instructions being available. Windows 10's Core Isolation feature will use them if the processor has them, otherwise it implements them in software. Apparently the hardware implementation is enough faster than the software implementation that Microsoft decided to only support the hardware implementation in Windows 11, even though most people will never be able tell the impact. I run Core Isolation on my three year old XPS 13 and saw no performance difference with it on vs. with it not on.
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Was that so hard to say? I'm looking at you Microsoft. obermd, thank you for the info.
When I ran the Windows 11 test tool, it just told me that nope, not supported click here. So I clicked there, and all I got was a list of processors not supported but no explanation as to why.
learned something new.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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The cutoff is gen 8 Intel though (and as noted above MS made an exception for one of their surfaces using a gen7 chip).
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
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I wasn't 100% certain when Intel added those instructions. I know they're in the Gen 11 chips. My XPS 13 is a Gen 8 chip, which may be why enabling the Core Isolation mode didn't impact system performance.
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I read, somewhere a while back, that they're loosening restrictions is you do a fresh install. It's only the upgrade that has those requirements.
The less you need, the more you have.
Even a blind squirrel gets a nut...occasionally.
JaxCoder.com
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My desktop will run 11. My laptop will run 11. Her desktop will run 11. My daughter's laptop will run 11, but her desktop is too old. Bring 11 on!
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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Masochist. I'm in the process of importing all of my working machines into VMs. It's only taken 6 years.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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There are some articles, some responses on QA forums, some posts on other forums, some responses to 100-eagle-eyed Kent's news stories, responses to surveys, etc. ...
... that are so brilliant, useful, provocative, so relevant to issues I am dealing with ...
... that I feel the current modes of expressing appreciation are not enough.
What if I could send a "micro-payment" ?
Let's say I could send US$ 1 ... now, I can hear you laughing, see you snickering; you are thinking that US$ 1 won't get you even the cheapest, smallest, anything at StarBucks. But, consider that here in Lanna (northern Thailand) that will get me almost 2 quarts of made fresh daily soy-milk, 250 grams of fresh, ground daily, pork, 750 grams of carrots trucked in from the farm at 4AM the day they go on sale.
But, you will say: well, you have a retirement income/pension from a western country, or substantial assets. I'd say: that's partially correct, but, what if the income is at a level where you couldn't afford to rent a broom-closet to live-in in San Francisco, or, Toronto, or, London, and, the assets are fixed, in local whatever, illiquid without major losses ?
I don't use any form of bit-coin, and, don't intend to; I don't have any specific ideas for how micro-payments could be implemented without exorbitant per transaction costs. I assume that CodeProject would never want to be a "bank"
imho, if implemented, all information about who sends, or receives, micro-payments, and amounts, should be anonymized, confidential. I would not want to know that OriginalGriff received 100k pounds last year
But, what do you think ? How would you feel if anonymous-someone sent you US$ 0.50 ?
An alternative ? Let me "transfer" rep-points I have earned.
«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch
modified 1-Oct-21 5:19am.
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BillWoodruff wrote: How would you feel if someone sent you US$ 0.50 ?
I'd be happy.
But ... I can't help thinking it would ruin the "atmosphere", the "feel" of the site. We already get enough idiots posting garbage because they think it will improve their resumé, if you add in profit then the crap / quality ratio will probably go up enormously - just like "YouTube development tutorial videos" which are just there for the like / subscribe numbers and the cash that can generate.
And just like YouTube, that would mean that the good stuff gets buried beneath a pile of rubbish so high and wide you can't see the gems underneath hardly at all ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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As expected (from Thee), excellent insights; I have just sent you a virtual L2 micro-payment worth 2 300+ gram slow char-broiled red snappers stuffed with a stalk of lemon grass: can you get here in the four hours they will remain tastiest ?
I wonder, if complete anonymizing were implemented, if that would address your concerns about impact on "atmosphere" ?
I propose a counter-factual:
Member "X" got 50 pounds in micro-payments this last three months; X knows which post got a donation, what the total donation per post was. X does not know who sent the donations, or if the total amount per donation came from one donor, or many.
The donor "Y" has access to a list of donation dates, to what post, amount.
Possible benefits;
1) X can gain some ideas about which of their contributions have been perceived as unusually relevant, or appreciated.
2) Y can possibly gain some ideas about which members they want to follow in the future.
3) if the CP user "Z", browsing whatever, sees that a certain post got above a certain donation total, or, can search by donation total, that may alert them to posts more relevant.I regret to say that there is probably no new feature that some people will not abuse, and that CP would not incur staff-time cost in implementing, let alone, preventing abuse of. Consider the number of junk articles posted now; the number of absurd QA questions posted because CP does not demand the poster enter a few simple Tags to identify the context/platform/language, etc. ... that the C# language forum has become a QA forum ... the number of posts on the Lounge that are QA questions. "Abuse" is probably too strong a word, here, since it has overtones of negative intentionality. The fact that the most appropriate QA forum gets very little traffic may motivate a member to post on another forum ... rather than indifference than reflect indifference to rules, or "others do it ... why not me?"
May sound like I'm fed-up ? Not the case: a few flies in the soy-milk can be easily removed by straining (selective inattention) and, the pleasure, challenge, rewards, of being a member are, for me, comparatively, "astronomical" 
cheers, Bill
@chris-maunder
«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch
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You would have to prevent people donating to their own posts as that would artificially inflate their apparent value and would cost them nothing as the money would go from them back to their own account.
Perhaps we could be more altruistic and donate money for helpful contributions, but the donated money could be given to a charity / emergency appeal rather than to the article's author but still enhancing the author's / article's reputation. There could, say, be a choice of 3 or 4 charities to donate to, which changes every couple of months.
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You can't upvote your posts on forums now, so a mechanism for handling that is in place.jsc42 wrote: Perhaps we could be more altruistic and donate money for helpful contributions, but the donated money could be given to a charity / emergency appeal rather than to the article's author but still enhancing the author's / article's reputation. There could, say, be a choice of 3 or 4 charities to donate to, which changes every couple of months.
I proposed to Chris CP have a scholarship fund members could donate to enable a once-a-year grant for a young programmer's education several. years ago.
imho, having a select list of charities might lead to controversy.
«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch
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BillWoodruff wrote: An alternative ? Let me "transfer" rep-points I have earned.
I'm with @OriginalGriff on this. As soon as people realised they could make money from the site it would become home to the wrong sort. And probably drive the rest of us elsewhere. Keep the points system as is, just a thank you every so often is all I need or want.
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