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I tried PowerShell a couple of times, but I agree that for a C# programmer the syntax is really awful.
modified 11-Nov-22 12:51pm.
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Years ago I wrote a C# DLL that allows my programs to take in raw C# cs files and run them as scripts.
Why PowerShell was created without the ability to natively use C# for scripting instead of that inane verb-noun syntax with the cryptic parameters is beyond me.
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If all your business logic is C#, and you just read it in PS, you can't step through that code to debug it. Of course if that's already been thoroughly tested and you're dropping it in as-is, then it's not much of an issue.
PS can create/use the same .NET objects you're familiar with natively. Yes, the syntax can be non-intuitive at first, but once you get the hang on it, the benefit of being able to bang out a short script to automate some menial task beats having to fire up VS and build/compile an EXE every time you want to make a tiny change.
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PS syntax is not intuitive. It is awful to work with.
What I do is create a C# library DLL project, and write unit tests for the class(es). Then I include my ps1 file, which I can run from within VS by using the PS ISE, which loads the cs file.
That gives me good source control, good testing, and minimal “script kiddie” coding.
C# is far more versatile and elegant with which to code. Since our team standardized on PS long before I got there (DevOps stuff), it then is compatible with what others are doing by staying within the PS world.
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MSBassSinger wrote: C# is far more versatile and elegant with which to code
Well obviously. PS and C# serve completely different purposes.
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You could also call .NET from PS. That way, you don't mix 2 languages. .NET methods don't look perfectly not-out-of-place in PS but the result will still be way more maintainable than calling C# files from PS.
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I find it easily maintainable.
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Even though PowerShell has a not so great syntax, it's a god-tier shell.
You can call bash from PS whenever you need UNIX tools.
You can call .NET from PS whenever you need to configure anything system wise. Anything.
You can call the Windows Store when you need to install anything vaguely supported by Microsoft.
You can use those god-awful Node-esque scripts when you need to transpile/polyfill something front-end related.
You can patch system level .dll's to enable advanced remoting features.
You can remote from anything into anything.
Only downside is the security. If you listen to Microsoft, they will tell you they have experts that understand and patch common vulnerabilities quickly.
If you actually use it for a couple of years, you'll quickly notice their understanding of security resembles covering their ears and yelling "lalala I can't hear you" very loudly.
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is it possible for you to write up a post on this topic?
diligent hands rule....
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Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll see if I can find the time while on vacation in a couple of weeks.
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Yes.
I've been wanting to write something, might as well be this.
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*shudder*
PS is for scripting and for automation. It to me was just another language that could enable me to do a few more things than a bat file did and it was going to be "more" supported by MS going forward.
C# is a programming language that you make things(objects) out of. you can call .net objects from PS and that is what PS is for. Keep C# where it belongs and PS where it belongs.
I really think too often we all(myself included) get stuck in our ways and avoid learning something new just because at fist glance we don't like it. PowerShell is just another technology. Once learned you will see some benefits. Granted C# is more powerful. But each has their purpose in the MS exosphere.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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PS is built on .NET and uses objects. Think of the approach I use the same principle as separating business logic from UI logic. I separate the business logic (much better done in C#) from the scripting logic (simpler work better done in PS).
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IIRC, Powershell is written/implemented in C#.
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Written in C#, uses .NET, but the syntax is nothing like C#.
IMHO, they would have been better off creating a C# library for static commands that are now verb-noun syntax and keeping the familiar C# syntax.
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If you think about the C# to open a process and pass it arguments, the Powershell syntax is less verbose than that would be.
Part of it is they started kicking around together as kids and since neither was an adult it's a lord of the flies sort of deal. (Much respect to both, but not giving up the metaphor.)
C# only not terribly long ago (C# 3/4, respectively) added var/dynamic that would enable some of what powershell is doing with sticking command results into objects.
The typical problem space (system administration/networking/security?) also has all these concerns that you simply do not have with the majority of what C# code out there is doing.
I'm not saying I wouldn't love it if it PowerShell were more C#-y and less whatever it is.
But I do see challenges and reasons not to simply say "let's make it a C# console that sends input (script file or otherwise) straight to IL and onwards to a shell-specific runtime".
Nowadays? Even if the guy tasked with and enabled to undertake a massive re-write of PowerShell looked at the state of things and decided that approach was a really good way to go? Well you've got all this baggage that plane simply wouldn't carry. There are probably many many folks less C# dev and more really smart scripter-admins (or wanting nothing to do with writing any of it) who depend on what's there and if you pulled the rug in the name of "code sanity" they would be very unhappy.
Maybe it would be possible for the interpreter to detect "old-style" vs "new" and translate the old stuff on the fly...
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I am not advocating to change it. It is too late. They missed the boat on making PS something good for non-developer DevOps folks and for C# developers.
But it would be great if they would simply streamline the way a .NET DLL, not in the GAC, is loaded for use.
My reason for this is be able to apply a separation of concerns - administrative (PS script) vs business rules (C#).
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Yes, makes sense maybe.
I suppose without getting into the weeds of it, my knee-jerk would be that if business rules are branching scripting logic then maybe it is anywhere from not awful to preferential for them to live as a part of it.
But I picture a scenario like you are a cloud host and depending on client tier you want to spin some resources up on group A vs group B hardware (more muscle). You might call into C# to get that client tier, but based on the result the A/B specifics are part of the script.
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I love to see another cohort participating in such crimes against humanity. This reminds me of about 10 years ago when I cut my teeth with PS at a bank I worked at. I had ended up building a whole Console app AutoUtils.exe in VB.NET for handling day to day maintenance on the dev and QA environments as well as some security auditing functions via Batch files. After the bare metal server migrations to VMs in a blade rack a few months later, IT Jesus decided suddenly PS was king and the only accepted tool for scripting. I left there before I got the chance to rewrite the AutoUtils as PS scripts. But the ability to consume .net appcode directly in PS was something I was excited to leverage.
At my last job, our senior started establishing devops practices and the number of servers between our 2 datacenters was significant. He started using PS with C# helpers for handling specific build workflows between environments and datacenters. Last time I talked to him, he uses it at his new job unraveling several years of user induced "point and click" workflows that had no need being manual. Told me he has written several C# helpers.
No shame in using what works for your use case.
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In speaking with a security expert. His #1 recommendation was to disable PowerShell!
He said about 80% of the FILELESS (undetectable) infiltrations use PowerShell.
Since I was not a big user of it, I simply disabled it. It would be TOUGH for me to enable it.
Just an interesting point!
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Wordle 377 4/6
⬜⬜🟨⬜🟨
⬜⬜🟨🟨🟨
🟩🟨🟨🟨🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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Lesley posted that over 12 hours ago ... still on the same page ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I know. Cut me some slack. just trying to get this wordle sharing thing down
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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We never cut slack on Leslies!
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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