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Amitava_Guha wrote: So we are saying that we coders are dumb!!!! We are taking 10 times the time to code than the time to train!!!! How can that be?
No, we coders are extremely clever. We can take a mindless machine and train it to perform tasks that used to require a mind!
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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The human creating the invoices by hand will do so slowly and make random variable mistakes.
The computer creating the invoices will do so very quickly and make very precise mistakes.
>64
It’s weird being the same age as old people. Live every day like it is your last; one day, it will be.
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To err is human, to really mess up requires a computer.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: to really mess up requires a computer team of software engineers
FTFY
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Amitava_Guha wrote: So we are saying that we coders are dumb!!!! We are taking 10 times the time to code than the time to train!!!!
Look at the coding time as training time.
Computers are so dumb, they require that much more precise instructions be prepared for them to perform the task.
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Amitava_Guha wrote: Well that is the time it takes to INSTRUCT THE COMPUTER
No that is not true. No more so than saying that a light switch powers the light bulb.
Amitava_Guha wrote: Well if that human is smart, may be an hour or less. But let's say that it be one day(8 to 5).
I can't speak to invoicing but at least at one time it took 4 years at a university and a very difficult test which it was expected and norm that it would take at least two times to pass the test to become a CPA.
But I haven't seen any computers showing up at a zoo one month to do an audit of the books and then the next month showing up to do a forensic audit on a bankrupt company.
In the same way that a power drills are nice on a construction site but just like a manual drill they don't do anything unless a human uses it.
Amitava_Guha wrote: Well give the machine a mind.
They have been trying to do that since the 1950s with computers. And they were trying to do it in other ways before that.
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Oh this is priceless. So my primary American customer has spent 6 figures or more putting hi-res flat screens all over the factory floor to show all the workers their productivity, etc. The best part, they are all so busy working their a$$es off, I've not seen one time where they look up.
So, I'm in Mexico with another customer. I ask them about their current production deliverables. Just curious, wondering how orders are going, small chit chat. They take me to a LARGE whiteboard with an electrical tape grid. They just update it daily with a whiteboard marker. At the end of the month, they take a cell phone picture and erase it. Sometimes we over think things.
How does everyone share info? 4 times a week, the factory and offices empty for lunch. Everyone has brought food from home. We're looking at a Mexican buffet for 90 minutes. Best office meeting ever.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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but wait, it gets better 
So customer #2 is only 5 months late in paying invoices. So late that my support from the primary vendor not only lapsed, they said "no more support until $$." Now this stalled a project they really want to complete, so time to actually do their jobs. Technically it's all "computerized." Purchasing just forgot to tell us 3rd parties how to bill them with their new system which (a) they didn't tell us about and (b) never responded to our emails, quotes, invoices, etc.
This is why most small and medium sized businesses are nimbler than these huge corporations. Look at MS. As much as really experienced users $itch about this and that, they make it extremely difficult to process real customer feedback.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Just sharing, rated "lounge SAFE " (MY opinion )
This rant contains no programming or instructions.
..if I want your opinion, I'll ask for it - more true today
...that and a dime will get you cup of coffee - monetary obsolete
.. here is a dime, call somebody who cares.. technologically obsoleted , he refered to payphone
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If my boss was saying that kind of thing to me I'd read it as "change your attitude" and I would. 
Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
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If my boss had said that to me I would tell him to take that dime and stick it where the sun don't shine.
If you can't find time to do it right the first time, how are you going to find time to do it again?
PartsBin an Electronics Part Organizer - Release Version 1.4.0 (Many new features) JaxCoder.com
Latest Article: EventAggregator
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Mike, Mike, Mike. You forgot an essential part of your response.
I would tell him to take that dime, fold it until it's all sharp corners, and stick it where the sun don't shine.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Yeah, that makes cents.
If you can't find time to do it right the first time, how are you going to find time to do it again?
PartsBin an Electronics Part Organizer - Release Version 1.4.0 (Many new features) JaxCoder.com
Latest Article: EventAggregator
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I have a bad feeling this boss is going to sit on it and enjoy it  
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Never had a boss Mike - I work with people not for them
In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
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I've occasionally worked for other people, but over time I figured I was as smart or smarter than them and decided to work for myself, which I've done most of my life.
If you can't find time to do it right the first time, how are you going to find time to do it again?
PartsBin an Electronics Part Organizer - Release Version 1.4.0 (Many new features) JaxCoder.com
Latest Article: EventAggregator
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Same here Mike - I got lucky my first contract was a six month one on a bank liquidation, which turned out to be the worlds largest (still is) , I managed to get rid of my agent and go direct - it lasted 21 years - got to be some sort of record.
In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
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Fo sho, the word "boss" has a total negative connotation to it, that's more akin to master. That only works in Kung Fu movies.
Jeremy Falcon
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Agreed, but to be fair, most people don't realize what it's like to employ people. Once you hire people, with your own money/budget, you tend to have a bit more empathy for employers. Maybe he's a douche, but we don't know. What we do know is the OP has issues.
Jeremy Falcon
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Can't argue with any of that.
*I was going to capitalize and bold the word 'any', but reconsidered. 
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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Absolutely, I agree 100%, there are bad on both sides.
If you can't find time to do it right the first time, how are you going to find time to do it again?
PartsBin an Electronics Part Organizer - Release Version 1.4.0 (Many new features) JaxCoder.com
Latest Article: EventAggregator
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He sure does (have issues)
In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
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This!
We're currently replacing an application that mixes application and ERP database tables in a single database.
The ERP has an API, so we want to use that and create our own database so it's completely seperated from the ERP.
Of course, we also have an API we use for our applications.
Now I was on vacation and one employee said to the other "we're going to migrate those ERP tables to the API" and the other employee spent a whole day incorporating the ERP tables into our own API 
When I got back from vacation and I heard that, I had to muffle a scream, as this is a sharp priced fixed price project 
I briefed them about this before my vacation and I left comments in our API code saying "This will be migrated to the ERP API.", but he forgot and didn't read the comments...
Now I, a good "boss", took a mental note "brief even better next time this situation occurs."
A bad boss may have scolded the guy.
But sh*t like this happens, scoldings or no.
When you scold them they'll simply stay quiet next time, be afraid to take initiative, or leave altogether.
That said, I may not always been as nice when stuff like this happened in the past, and I will lose my temper again in the future
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Sander Rossel wrote: That said, I may not always been as nice when stuff like this happened in the past, and I will lose my temper again in the future 
That's exactly it man. Two or three times and we're all human. Even if it cost money. Lord knows I've boo-booed enough to not hold it against others.
But, the analogy I give is imagine going to a mechanic when your car has a problem but instead of fixing it he goes for a joy ride and charges you anyway. That's what it feels like... if you're lucky. If you're not lucky the mechanic makes the car worse and still charges you.
So, a good employer is really a gem as it takes a good level of maturity. But if it becomes a habitual pattern that goes on for a year or so... time to rethink that employee. Which, I could be wrong, but given the OP... wouldn't surprise me if he fits the bill.
Side note, I know in my experience, a lot of devs just "check out" in meetings and pretend they don't. Or they don't understand something and will never speak up. Nobody wants to be that guy who says "dunno", so a lot just pretend to know when they don't. So, if it's talked about you still need to be very, very explicit in a story, etc. with some devs regardless.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Or they don't understand something and will never speak up. Nobody wants to be that guy who says "dunno", so a lot just pretend to know when they don't.
Two answers to that:
- It is better to shut up and look stupid, that to open your mouth and confirm it.
and / versus
- It is better to ask and look stupid, but learn about it, than to not open your mouth and do the dumbest and most avoidable error confirming your lack of knowledge.
The art is to know when you are in which situation.  
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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