Re: Developer Salaries - Work Issues Discussion Boards

I have one jr developer now that isn't worth a nickle.

It depends on the skills and area. C/C++ pay more than VB.

ok well i develop in C# mainly and everyone has been pleased with my work thus far. Now knowing that what kind of range are we talking about on an average?

Also depends on what part of the country you're in. I live in South Carolina and there's about $10K difference from the city I'm in and a nearby city (30 minutes apart). Not only that but salaries go up another $10k or more just another hour and a half down the road. It all comes down to industry... of the three cities the one with the largest average salary is of course the one with the most technology.

Er, and what country...
I hate to mention this, but there's a small (but growing) group of countries across that big stretch of water known as the Atlantic Ocean, for instance, and within even a small country (ok, a collective group: The United Kingdom), there are variances.
Typical developer salaries in the Midlands are considerably lower than those paid a hundred miles further south.

Don't sites like DICE carry salary surveys or something?

Steve S

Hehe, I earn less than $8000 per year being a Jr. programmer as you called it. I have rich experience in C++ and UML design.

Its Russia.

Well, that kind of reinforces my point.
There was an outcry in the UK about the fact that companies outsourced stuff to India, for instance. Employment costs in India are generally lower than in the UK. Firstly, because of the relative differences in costs of living, and secondly, we have legislation which means it's not an advantage to be an employer!

Then, allegedly, some of the Indian outsourcing companies began to complain, because they were being undercut by China - a case of the biter bit.

Luckily, my best customers don't want the lowest price - they want *me* to visit them, collect their requirements, quote them a price and delivery time, and then stick to it - they know they could get something cheaper elsewhere, but they want the warm feeling they get from being able to call with a bug report or a feature request on a Friday afternoon, and know that (unless I've told them otherwise), they'll have some kind of resolution or quote for implementation by Tuesday at the latest.

YMMV.

Steve S

you know the point is software industries is a knowledge based company, If you are very good vc++ programmer (may be the best) in India he will be cheaper by may be 10 times. So the customers look for the cheaper and equally compitative people in India.
and no doubt there are very good developers in India. Smile | :)

regards.

No doubt there are Smile | :)

, just as there are very good developers everywhere. I wasn't suggesting otherwise. Just because a few hundred years ago most of the map 'belonged' to the UK (in a 'possession is nine points' kind of way, not in any real or moral sense) doesn't mean that we're all still wandering around bemoaning the fact that the world isn't grateful to have been British. I think letting the colonies have their 'independence' was a fine idea - you don't think we lost the American War Of Independence by accident, do you Poke tongue | ;-P

[Only kidding guys, some of my friends are (OK, ... were ..) American.

I understand the economic arguments involved well enough, and the company I'm still working for (but only just, particularly given how I feel today!) has an outsourcing operation somewhere thereabouts.

Consumers/Customers should have freedom of choice - if I want to pay someone less to do the job, I should be able to, but sadly, many governments think this is wrong. My own has laws (which are frequently circumvented) about minimum wage levels; it also has punitive taxes (although they are not always called 'tax') which mean that it is less economic to have employees, so smaller companies are hit quite hard. There is the employer's National Insurance contributions which must be paid, plus a whole slew of other 'employee benefits', such as paternity leave, which impact on the performance of the business as a whole. (Before anyone points out that paternity leave is unpaid, bear in mind that the employer has to continue doing whatever they do while the employee is off bonding with their spouse and new-born).

Inevitably, this pushes costs up, which pushes prices up, which makes bean-counters think "Hmmm, we can outsource this and increase our take". Before you know where you are, companies like Dyson (the cyclone vacuum cleaner, two-drum washing machine) move manufacturing out of the UK, and people complain that you can't buy locally made goods, and it's unpatriotic.

Of course, the UK tends to be less protectionist than some other (previously mentioned) countries, but that's because even our politicians can't argue in favour of full commitment to the EU and single monetary system on the one hand, and put up trade barriers on the other (but hey, if they were brighter, they'd be even more dangerous!)

There are good and bad developers everywhere there are developers.
Of course, it goes without saying that CP has more than it's fair share of the former Wink | ;)

Steve S

Russia russie rozn. Moskva vs other

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_IT10000010.html

Perhaps this could be useful. Though I find that salary ranges vary widly with the companies and locations.

J

MCSD C#

From my experience, money is more closely tied to a position rather than the person filling that position. At the last company I worked for, there were four levels of "programmers." Each of those designations had a pay range. You could get a pay increase, but only up to the top of that range, because that's all the money that was designated for that position. A new designation came with more experience.

A better example is the pay scale that the U.S. government uses. It's based on a grade/step program. For example, if you were offered a job with a grade-6 step-5 pay, you'd earn about $30,416 per year. Promotions are fairly systematic. The most you could make at grade-6 is about $34,891. However, if you asked to start out with a grade-7 step-2 pay, you'd already start out about $400 higher than the grade-6 step-5 pay, and could end up with as much as $38,767. The moral to this story is that it is easier to start at a higher grade/lower pay than it is to ask for a higher pay within the same grade.

"The pointy end goes in the other man." - Antonio Banderas (Zorro, 1998)

Dollars? Nice, in the uk try GBP20K

the problem in this code is that it can't compile it when "A" is defined as "int"
"C:\Documents and Settings\simon\Desktop\the program.cpp(34) : error C2443: operand size conflict"
in my program A is in the range of 1-512 in decimal so thier is no problem with the size.
so how i force it to compile?
or how i change the program to compile it?
void light_port_b(int A)
{
_asm
{
mov Dx,PORTB
Mov Al,A
Out Dx,Al
}
}

Ints are 32 bits nowadays, and AL is a 16 bit reg. Change it to unsigned short.

Odd forum for a programming question by the way Smile | :)

Ryan

Ryan Roberts wrote:
and AL is a 16 bit reg.

its 8 bits Poke tongue | ;-P

MSN Messenger.
prakashnadar@msn.com

Oops. Teach me to answer questions when drunk.

I'll leave my stupidity for prosperity Blush | :O

Ryan

Where I'm currently working, I have no reasonable career path. Moving up isn't an option, as there's (practically speaking) nowhere to go without becoming a manager. However, I'm quite well paid as developers go generally speaking, particularly given my location Big Grin | :-D

.

I'm not averse to moving, but I live in a 4 bedroomed detached house (with office at home, broadband etc) facilities, and if I move, it's going to cost to achieve the same environment.

Ideally I'd like to be able to work from home most days, which, via VPN, isn't a problem at the moment (although when I'm doing a lot of work involving our test servers, I do go into the office).

Are there many companies in the UK that are properly geared up for this, and actually trust their employees to work rather than watch daytime TV?

Steve S

(Oh no, another change in the organisational structure....)
Looks like I'll be going back to contracting real soon now.

Steve S

We are in search of a java script writter. If you are interested in some money on the side, not full time, please click this link: CLICK ME Poke tongue | ;-P

LOSTTWARE.com
My site allows for people to develop private programming teams, with password protected forums for each team.

I've made a few practical applications of UML at work over the past year or two, applying what I've learned from a couple of books on the subject. My questions are:

* What books have you used to learn UML?
* Where did you learn UML -- self taught, instructor-led, OJT?
* If you actually used it at work, what was the scope and scale of the project?

Any other recommendations?

Perhaps very few people are reading this forum...?

John Kuhn wrote:
Perhaps very few people are reading this forum...?

This does seem to be a slow forum Cry | :((

John Kuhn wrote:
* What books have you used to learn UML?

UML Distilled followed by the Craig Larman book which is excellent.

John Kuhn wrote:
* Where did you learn UML -- self taught, instructor-led, OJT?

Self taught

John Kuhn wrote:
* If you actually used it at work, what was the scope and scale of the project?

I've only used it on one large project at my previous job and on some small scale stuff currently.

Avery, thanks for the response.

This book by Larman?: Applying UML and Patterns: An Introduction to Object-Oriented Analysis and Design and the Unified Process (2nd Edition)

John Kuhn wrote:
This book by Larman?: Applying UML and Patterns: An Introduction to Object-Oriented Analysis and Design and the Unified Process (2nd Edition)

That's the one.