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jschell wrote: Provide the google query that returns, say, at least 1000. All free of course.
So many == 1000?
Why free? I know teachers are underpaid, but professionals sometime have to pay for resources.
jschell wrote: Provide the google query that provides follow up studies and/or information that demonstrates that each of those 1000 does in fact succeed in teaching the skill(s).
what am I? Your mother?
This Site[^] seems to have quite a few - with user ratings. Now, before you ask, I don't think the results of the lessons are subject to a five year study on how well the students cope with team work after school. In fact I am unaware of any studies of any specific lesson plans other than within individual schools; Curricula are frequently investigated and modified depending on various study results - but in most countries at least, the implementation of the curriculum is up to the teacher via the HOD via the principal so the effectiveness of a particular lesson plan is at too detailed a level to be of note in the curriculum study.
jschell wrote: - Complexity
You think the teaching of, say, physics, chemistry, even Maths or English is not complex? Teachers learn skills ant teach them all the time, Are you saying team work is too complex?
jschell wrote: Poor understanding of the skill and what it means to be skillful at it.
A condition of employment as a teacher (in Qld anyhow) is continued professional development - so where a teacher has a poor understanding of something they are required to teach, it is this PD that helps skill them up.
jschell wrote: - Inability to teach the esoteric
- Inability to learn the esoteric
I'm not sure what you mean here? in what way are these skill sets esoteric? Surely they are as much life skills as other things one learns at school?
Even where they in some way esoteric, then why cannot teachers teach esoteric skills? You seem to have a dim view of teachers!
MVVM # - I did it My Way
___________________________________________
Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011
.\\axxx
(That's an 'M')
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_Maxxx_ wrote: So many == 1000?
Yes that works.
_Maxxx_ wrote: Why free? I know teachers are underpaid, but professionals sometime have to pay for resources.
Because if there are in fact many excellent ones there the market will dictate that little or no price. Additionally it is much more likely that there will be independent evaluations of them.
But feel free to provide a 1000 ones that you must pay for and the corresponding independent evaluations for each.
_Maxxx_ wrote: what am I? Your mother?
You made the claim that there are "many". I presumed that you actually knew of them. Thus it was possible for you to prove your point rather than requiring that I prove it.
_Maxxx_ wrote: I don't think the results of the lessons are subject to a five year study on how well the students cope with team work after school.
Which of course is a problem. It isn't a stretch to say that it is likely that teachers that are given new lesson plans are, on average, more likely to initially approach it enthusiastically and thus more likely, at the end of one year, to give it a higher rating.
_Maxxx_ wrote: You think the teaching of, say, physics, chemistry, even Maths or English is not complex?
The understanding of the first examples are very, very well known. There is no uncertainty about the equation for force or how one proves what the area of a right triangle is. As for the last there are in fact many ways to teach it and at the lower levels things like spelling and sentence construction are well understood however at the higher levels, again, one of the factors is complexity. Otherwise universities and even high schools would be turning out a vast number of best selling authors.
_Maxxx_ wrote: A condition of employment as a teacher (in Qld anyhow) is continued professional development
Poor understanding by of all of humanity not the teachers themselves.
_Maxxx_ wrote: Surely they are as much life skills as other things one learns at school?
Are you claiming that schools, average schools, are competently teaching "life skills" to a majority of the students?
_Maxxx_ wrote: Even where they in some way esoteric, then why cannot teachers teach esoteric skills?
I already gave you a list of reasons why teaching such things by average teachers to average students is very difficult if not impossible. If the average teacher can teach all esoteric skills to average students then why do not more high skills graduated gifted painters?
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My problem with the whole "look at how successful I have been as an entrepreneur! You should all follow my example!" - is:
If everyone followed the entrepreneurial path there would be nobody left to clear up the mess and ensure the company was successful.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Hmm <<douglas mode="">> telephone sanitizers <>
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Being successful has more to do with passion. I like to program, but I like what I do after work more than what I do at work. If I had even a portion of the money that Bill Gates or Warren Buffet does, I would check out and live for me. They are successful because they are passionate about what they do. It isn't about the money, but what they accomplish with their passion.
I'm okay being average, every successful person needs cogs like me to get their ideas working and keep their companies running. I'll give you a good 40 hours every week, but not a ton more. I'm not saying that I don't want to be better, but that I don't want to get my career get in the way of my family and hobbies!
Good luck to the people that are passionate, I want to work for them!
Hogan
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Amen! 
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snorkie wrote: Being successful has more to do with passion
Nope. At least not in terms of any research that I have seen.
Far as I have ever seen the only criteria for success seems to be "luck".
(And that of course isn't the same as saying there are not ways that lead to failure.)
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Short version of the issue: The skills you need to succeed in business aren't being taught by universities or tests.
Better analysis of the issue: Every skill is situational; whether or not you should learn it depends on what kind of person you are and what opportunities are available.
Fifty years ago, people taught that college was always a good thing, and they didn't bother to figure out why. Thus, they missed the fact that it teaches situational skills rather than universal, all-encompassing-all-holy-all-mighty skills, which nobody teaches and is silly to expect from anywhere.
Now, it's popular to call certain college studies worthless or even harmful because they are clearly not as good as they were trumpeted as in the past. That's not entirely true either; they are still just situational skills like they always have been.
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jesarg wrote: Short version of the issue: The skills you need to succeed in business aren't
being taught by universities or tests.
The real short version
1. They don't know what those are.
2. It is very likely they couldn't teach them if they knew them.
In comparison there are ways to teach most people what "1+1" is, however no one knows how to make every student into Einstein.
jesarg wrote: Fifty years ago, people taught that college was always a good thing, and they
didn't bother to figure out why. Thus, they missed the fact that it teaches
situational skills rather than universal, all-encompassing-all-holy-all-mighty
skills, which nobody teaches and is silly to expect from anywhere.
Sigh...50 years ago
1. Most people didn't go to college
2. Those that did were often much brighter than the average population.
3. Those that did often were starting from a family base that was much better off than average.
4. Of those not in the above (at least 3) they have a very strong drive that wasn't being taught in elementary school then either.
And if in fact college graduates were more successful than those now then it is the above factors that made it so - not the schooling.
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What does the fox say?[^]
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Everybody knows they make the same noise as a Giraffe.
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I read that as Everybody knows they make the same noise as Griff.
Half an hour left until I leave, I definitely need the weekend.
You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colon."
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You've got to be kitten me! (1)
NOTES:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1: I'd like to apologize in advance for the subsequent pun war.
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What, like this[^]?
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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Wow: that was really, really awful.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
me, in pictures
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Not now, not this weekend. We're off on an outdoor activity weekend and I really don't need to get wet and cold as well. Your wet wind is not welcome and we don't need you, please stay away until next week.
Thank-you,
Vilmos
speramus in juniperus
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Depending on where your activity is, pack a nice warm set of waterproofs! The forecast generally is not good...
Alternatively, try to do it indoors, perhaps the virtual version? 
This message is manufactured from fully recyclable noughts and ones. To recycle this message, please separate into two tidy piles, and take them to your nearest local recycling centre.
Please note that in some areas noughts are always replaced with zeros by law, and many facilities cannot recycle zeroes - in this case, please bury them in your back garden and water frequently.
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Waterproofs are packed! It is mostly outdoor stuff - orienteering, obstacle course, etc, etc, etc. Should be fun, but it will be wet which will not be fun.
speramus in juniperus
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Remember to pack a thermos!
(They keep drinks cold, as well as hot... )
This message is manufactured from fully recyclable noughts and ones. To recycle this message, please separate into two tidy piles, and take them to your nearest local recycling centre.
Please note that in some areas noughts are always replaced with zeros by law, and many facilities cannot recycle zeroes - in this case, please bury them in your back garden and water frequently.
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Black coffee, for me, and tea, for them.
speramus in juniperus
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You can't put G&T in coffee! The lemon will go all brown and horrible...and the ice will melt, and dilute the Wake Up Fluid.
This message is manufactured from fully recyclable noughts and ones. To recycle this message, please separate into two tidy piles, and take them to your nearest local recycling centre.
Please note that in some areas noughts are always replaced with zeros by law, and many facilities cannot recycle zeroes - in this case, please bury them in your back garden and water frequently.
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You can't put G&T in Vilmos and still have him drive the car
speramus in juniperus
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TAXI!
This message is manufactured from fully recyclable noughts and ones. To recycle this message, please separate into two tidy piles, and take them to your nearest local recycling centre.
Please note that in some areas noughts are always replaced with zeros by law, and many facilities cannot recycle zeroes - in this case, please bury them in your back garden and water frequently.
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30 miles. Are you paying?
speramus in juniperus
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Nope. I just pours 'em in, and tells the driver where to go...
This message is manufactured from fully recyclable noughts and ones. To recycle this message, please separate into two tidy piles, and take them to your nearest local recycling centre.
Please note that in some areas noughts are always replaced with zeros by law, and many facilities cannot recycle zeroes - in this case, please bury them in your back garden and water frequently.
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