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georani wrote: so powerful as C#, but more fun and readable to program with it.
C# is a cleaned up version of VB.
"Fun" you say. I say there's a lot of hobbyists.
Aaaw, the fun of cleaning up after them - so much, I regularly refuse to 
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Quote: C# is a cleaned up version of VB.
No, it is not, C# comes from The Delphi creator Anders Hejlsberg (Click to see Wikipedia article)
Quote: "Fun" you say. I say there's a lot of hobbyists.
There are a lot of commercial and industrial software made with VB.NET
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georani wrote: No, it is not, C# comes from The Delphi creator Anders Hejlsberg (Click to see Wikipedia article)
Which could be translated by search and replace into VB.NET; built on the newer VB runtime.
Instead of running P-code, we now have the .NET runtime.
georani wrote: There are a lot of commercial and industrial software made with VB.NET
Yes, by "professional beginners" 
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Quote: Which could be translated by search and replace into VB.NET; built on the newer VB runtime.
Instead of running P-code, we now have the .NET runtime.
False! False assertion, study more, do some research, try Wikipedia.
VB is an old language, VB.NET is another and newer language completely different, you cannot compile OLD VB code to .NET, but you can easily convert VB.NET code to C# code or vice versa, they have similar structure.
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georani wrote: False! False assertion, study more, do some research, try Wikipedia.
That, you should do.
georani wrote: VB is an old language, VB.NET is another and newer language completely different, you cannot compile OLD VB code to .NET, but you can easily convert VB.NET code to C# code or vice versa, they have similar structure.
That's correct; VB.NET and C# could be translated into each other by doing search and replace.
C# is just a cleaned up version of VB7. As said, they "needed" another language in the curly braces family.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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C# came out right after Microsoft lost the lawsuit regarding J++, their version of Java. It seemed (at the time) that C# was a repackaged J++ ... which may not be an accurate assumption. But the timing matched.
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Thank you for reinforcing my belief that TIOBE INDEX doesn't mean squat all.
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You are a brave soul, starting a flame war here where everybody knows that VB in any form is despised. Those who practice this black art should be ridiculed and burned at the stake! 
However, I did take the time to check the link and see that the study and results make no claim about which language is best. Looking at the results, I'd guess that these are the languages that are most popular for CS students.
That said, I actually agree the VB.NET is a great programming language, but as you've seen, not that well regarded here at CP albeit for some dubious reasons.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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Quote: I did take the time to check the link and see that the study and results make no claim about which language is the best.
Check that link again ant the title also, it is not about which is best, it is about popularity.
modified 21-Jul-18 11:18am.
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I know how to read.  I was agreeing with you.
georani wrote: I did take the time to check the link and see that the study and results make no claim about which language is best.
georani wrote: Check that link again ant the title also, it is not about which is best, it is about popularity.
You see how we kinda said the same thing there?
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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According to TIOBE's own methodology description, it's about the number of hits returned by a very specific search query, NOT THE ACTUAL USE OF THE LANGUAGE.
They go through a bunch of search engines and type +"language programming" into the engine, then grab the "number of results returned".
That is an ARBITRARY thing to search for. For example, on Google.com, the following results are turned:
+"C# programming" ~ 7,250,000 results
+"VB.NET programming" ~ 228,000 results
+"C#" ~111,000,000 results
+"VB.NET" ~ 24,800,000 results
The number of hits returned is just a number of pages that mention the search terms. That's all. The pages can be anything, including the documentation from MSDN, forum post questions, answers, complaints, "do my homework for me", resumes, job postings, ... ANYTHING.
It is is NO WAY a representation of the "use popularity" of the languages, only their mentions in web pages.
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Quote: According to TIOBE's own methodology description, it's about the number of hits returned by a very specific search query,
25 Search Engines, click to see:
TIOBE Programming Community Index Definition
Quote: It is is NO WAY a representation of the "use popularity" of the languages, only their mentions in web pages.
So, read this excerpt from this page: Tiobe Index - Click To See
Quote: The TIOBE Programming Community index is an indicator of the popularity of programming languages. The index is updated once a month. The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. Popular search engines such as Google, Bing, Yahoo!, Wikipedia, Amazon, YouTube and Baidu are used to calculate the ratings. It is important to note that the TIOBE index is not about the best programming language or the language in which most lines of code have been written.
The index can be used to check whether your programming skills are still up to date or to make a strategic decision about what programming language should be adopted when starting to build a new software system.
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georani wrote: The TIOBE Programming Community index is an indicator of the popularity of programming languages.
No, it's not. It's a ranking of the popularity of their search terms in web pages, NOT IN THE ACTUAL USE OF THE LANGUAGE NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT IT. Their methodology DIRECTLY contradicts the statement they made about the results.
Why??? Because you can go and do the searches yourself, come up with the raw data yourself, and THEN SKIP THE PART WHERE THEY MANUALLY ASSIGN ARBITRARY WEIGHTS TO THE hit() RESULTS.
The raw data numbers alone will tell you a verify different story.
You want a better indicator of what's in use? Go through the repositories on GitHub and compile a list of the languages used by every project. The results will be very different from what TIOBE is showing you.
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You cannot change a fanboi with logic, facts or common sense. A 4*2 will do the job though!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Thanks for pointing that out … as my TIOBE depression is over now … . Indeed, Google trends gives a totally different picture: I did a quick comparison of C# with VB.NET and the result is astonishing because C# is waaaay more popular than VB.NET (about 5x more popular) according to this simplified metrics … Therefore, it is certainly acceptable to question TIOBE representation of "popularity" …
BR,
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kmoorevs wrote: albeit for some dubious reasons.
You mean to say it's dubious that it's redundant?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Is this rhetorical?
[Edit]
Actually, I meant dubious as in questionable. For instance by the responses in this thread I should avoid VB.NET for these reasons:
0: It's possible to throw in the old 'On Error Resume Next'. Not that I have to, but OK.
1: It's commonly used by hobbyists/beginners.
2: Someone else wrote some crappy code with it.
3: The cool kids don't use it. It's not about being cool, it's about being productive/generating $.
Thanks to Dave K. for doing his own testing which clearly dispute the OP's claim as it seems the survey results are 'dubious'. I had a feeling when this thread showed up yesterday what it would turn into...at least it stirred things up a little for the weekend!
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
modified 21-Jul-18 15:33pm.
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Oops, stumbled accidentally into Soapbox...no...wait a minute...where am I?
Apparently, according to this list, anything vaguely related to IT is a programming language. I would like to add DCL to the list. Its been a few decades, but I'm certain its poised for a comeback
Seriously, languages are simply tools. Any tool works fine. At the moment, I'm busy sawing a board with a screwdriver...later, I'll hammer nails with a saw
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I started in .NET with VB and it was fine for picking up .NET.
However I soon found that most of what I was reading about was related to C#.
So I promptly learnt C# largely because there was and still is much more out there on the internet relating to C# than VB.
If I have a problem I need to solve the chances are higher that I will find someone else who has hit and fixed the same issue in C#.
So that's the primary reason I use C#.
The secondary reasons for my using C# are - it's easier to find work requiring C# experience and at a pinch it's easier to transition from C# to VB than the other way around.
As for VB being more readable - my experience with readability is generally more connected to the implementation than the language itself. That is the language is important but the way a programmer uses it is much more important when it comes to readability.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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And ? your point is ?
We can’t stop here, this is bat country - Hunter S Thompson RIP
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Quote: Visual Basic.NET is a great programming language, so powerful as C#, but more fun and readable to program with it.
Yes, and Java is blazing fast... 
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Looking a little closer at the numbers, classic VB was down 1.21% while VB.Net was up 1.2%. Maybe they changed how they handled the classified the data?
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Given the highly dubious methods used by the Totally Insipid Obliviots Bull Excrement index, I'm assuming that Google's broadened it's "close enough" language matching to bring up C# examples for VB.net searches and vice versa. (The version of this that conflates UWP, WPF, Silverblight, WP7 and WP8 together has been the bane of my recent existence since probably 1/3rd to 1/2 of the things I've been searching for are edge cases that aren't equivalent over the various flavors of XAML.)
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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It's about time. Even though the shop I currently work at doesn't use it, I still think it was better at somethings than C#, but than again C# is better at other things. it's a bit of a trade off.
Honestly, for years I think most VB devs searched for C# articles because that's what everyone else did, you got to be fluent in both.
Pick up a graphics or the latest DotNet framework book, it was likely going to be only published in C#.
One of my biggest complaints about VB.net was treating chars differently than C# did. C# treats them like an integer, as they should. So making hardware communication protocol libraries was always kind of a pain.
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C# treats chars like an integer?? What happens if they're non-ASCII? What if they're unicode? Sounds to me like it's treating them wrong.
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