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the company i was just hired to had contracted another company to code them an ecommerce site from scratch. it is in an asp.net system running on sql server 2000. the initial estimate was in the 20k range, for web design, sql and os licenses , database design and coding of the asp.net components. The site as-is is not exactly what my company needed, the database design is very poor, and the program they generated for inventory is rudimentary. In short, i need to get in and make the necessary changes currently, and also have the source so our company can continue to innovate and market itself online.
When i came on board i emailed the company that made the site because i couldnt find the sourcecode files. The responded that it was proprietary code of their business, and that i could not have access to them. I have called them twice with our lawyer to try and negotiate the release of the code developed from scratch, for us. Our lawyer is not versed in the code/internet law, so i am hoping some of the developers here can lend some insights.
One of the main arguments on their end is that releasing the code would be a security risk. even we employed them to develope the code for us from scratch, they have resold it to three other companies. they claim that us having the code would be a security risk because our it staff (read:me) would be able to find holes and crack into other businesses systems. our response is we would sign a NDA saying that the code will only be used for our site and business, and at no time will i release it or resell it to anyone else, or for personal use. this ties into their next argument, which is:
Releasing the code to us "for free" is unfair because they have supposedly spent "$70,000" developing it. basically trying to get us to purcahse the code we already paid them to write. We would only hold the rights to use this in house, so purchasing it for any price seems unfair on our end. I personally thought the original price of 20k was excessive, and that was before i knew we didnt have the code to make changes.
They currently use our site to advertise their services on their own website, and use it as an example of the product they sell, which is what they developed on our bill. So right now all our lawyer can think of is pulling our info from their site, as we never agreed to let them use us to advertise, nor did they ask.
I am looking for feedback on the following:
a) this deal is not indicative of typical asp.net contract work
b) we have legal recourse in the matter
c) technical workarounds for having a asp.net site compiled into a dll
Thanks ahead of time for the community's expertise, I personally have never been involved with a legal matter like this.
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JVillan wrote:
...contracted another company to code them an ecommerce site from scratch
*disclaimer* I am not a lawyer, and I am not advising you in any legal capacity *end disclaimer*
Therein lies the problem. Your company is at the mercy of whatever the terms of the original contract were with the contractor. Did your company's management read the contract? Are the terms of performance and customer satisfaction spelled out? Did your company sign off on any kind of acceptance of the work completed by the contractor? Find the contract. If your company has an attorney, he or she ought to be able to analyze a contract, even if they are not familiar with IS contracting.
This is not necessarily indicative of typical contract work... but it can happen. What's that old cliche? "Caveat Emptor" -- "Buyer Beware".
An ASP.NET site compiled into a DLL can be reverse-engineered, but if the contractor was that savvy about protecting its intellectual property, the DLL is obfuscated so that that won't work very well -- not to mention that their license and/or contact agreement might very spell out that reverse-engineering is a breach of contract, which in turn could subject you to legal and financial risk.
Sounds like you might want to start a new project...
What a piece of work is man, how noble in reason, how infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and admirable . . . and yet to me, what is this quintessence of dust? -- Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.
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John Kuhn wrote:
An ASP.NET site compiled into a DLL can be reverse-engineered, but if the contractor was that savvy about protecting its intellectual property, the DLL is obfuscated so that that won't work very well
How???
John Kuhn wrote:
Sounds like you might want to start a new project...
With a 'better' contract signed... if 'JVillan' still wants to outsource  ;P
I was born intelligent
Education ruined me!.
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S P S wrote:
How???
Sorry -- how to reverse engineer a DLL or how to obfuscate code?
I'm not an expert on reverse engineering software, but it is my somewhat basic understanding that since .NET code is compiled first to IL code and then JIT'ed to run, you can take the IL code and dis-assemble/de-compile it back to code that is pretty darn close to what the original author wrote.
I'm not an expert on obfuscating code, either, but there are some components out there, like the "dotfuscator" (i think that's what it's called...) that protect against reverse engineering -- at least to those who aren't that likely to really dedicate themselves to cracking your code.
What a piece of work is man, how noble in reason, how infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and admirable . . . and yet to me, what is this quintessence of dust? -- Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.
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Thanks
I was born intelligent
Education ruined me!.
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a) I can only speak for the company I work for - we give the client the the code, if they ask. Usually they don't, and we just keep it indefinitely in SourceSafe.
c) Technically, their comment about security is a bad sign. Security is not about hiding the code, it is about writing secure code. If their comment is true, it means they *may* have left themselves a backdoor, and have the ability to take your site down on a whim, or borrow whatever info they wanted.
Finally, as others have said, it is easy to decompile a .NET dll.
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Releasing the code to us "for free" is unfair because they have supposedly spent "$70,000" developing it. basically trying to get us to purcahse the code we already paid them to write. We would only hold the rights to use this in house, so purchasing it for any price seems unfair on our end. I personally thought the original price of 20k was excessive, and that was before i knew we didnt have the code to make changes.
They currently use our site to advertise their services on their own website, and use it as an example of the product they sell, which is what they developed on our bill. So right now all our lawyer can think of is pulling our info from their site, as we never agreed to let them use us to advertise, nor did they ask.
I am looking for feedback on the following:
a) this deal is not indicative of typical asp.net contract work
b) we have legal recourse in the matter
c) technical workarounds for having a asp.net site compiled into a dll
Thanks ahead of time for the community's expertise, I personally have never been involved with a legal matter like this.
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Hey people,
I was one of the lucky (read extremely lucky) few had a job offer before graduation. I've been working with ASP .NET for about 10 months now and would like to know if an MCAD/MCSD is worth it, both professionally and financially.
Ideas?? Suggestions??
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It's gotten me into a few interviews that I might not have gotten into otherwise. Not sure it's worth the time and expense though.
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Yes it is worth it, not only for financial and career progression, but for the knowledge gained, which of course ebenfits the former. Mine has certainly gotten me in the door and the knowledge and experience gained has kept me there.
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The problem that reduces the value of MS ertificates is that many people just memorize the Braindumps and testking etc.
then the pass MCAD/MCSD/MCSE in a very short time
while they did ont apply the knowledge required to pass the exam.
anyway..these Certificates still deserve to think about..But for your own benifit, be honest to yourself and study and apply well before thinking about passing the exam.
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Do u have any link that would give the dumps for MCSD.net??
I was born intelligent
Education ruined me!.
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It is straight and simple. Get the exams passed (by SOME means), but have your knowledge about development very sharp...
Having 10 months of experience is better for that matter try MCAD... if you are still in the learning process after that and your financial status if fine... complete your MCSD. AS far as I know...
MCAD + some exams = MCSD
I was born intelligent
Education ruined me!.
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It will get you in the door for interview at some companies. Others are not fussed.
I did my MCAD last year and I'm upgrading soon (read as soon as I've passed the final exam) to MCSD. I'm doing it the good old fasioned way of studying. And on 4 exams I passed first time... The Solutions Architecture exam I'm finding more difficult.  and I failed it the first time round. I will be re-taking it soon though.
There are a number of ways to do this. You can get the books and pay for just the exams which is the cheapest way, or you can go on training courses (which is more expensive). If you can get your company to pay for it then that's the best. If you're working for a Microsoft partner then they should jump at the chance to get you qualified.
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
--Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
You can get the books and pay for just the exams which is the cheapest way
I am trying this method
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
The Solutions Architecture exam I'm finding more difficult. and I failed it the first time round. I will be re-taking it soon though.
Oh boy, dont scare me... I have also made that exam as a last in my list
I was born intelligent
Education ruined me!.
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I wouldn't stop at an MCAD. Get the full MCSD. Its worth it. Its helped open doors for me that would be shut if I didn't have it.
I would get the books and spend the extra on the transcender practice tests. They are a huge aid in studying for these tests.
Good luck
J
MCSD C#
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I have been a network engineer for about 2 1/2 years now. I was unable to find any type of development job when I graduated college. I have been out since December 2001. I am frustrated because I have been on only a few interviews. I have looked on all types of sites and paper.....I guess I am really frustrated and looking for some advice.
Thanks everyone 
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Join the club, admission is free!
Matthew Hazlett
Windows 2000/2003 MCSE
Never got an MCSD, go figure...
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I was born intelligent
Education ruined me!.
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believe me you will get bored about that as well in few years.. you career should ideally contain few yrs or dev, few yrs of testing...all stages of SDLC.. but with constant updates about latest technologies
what is windows?
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dancingbaby wrote:
but with constant updates about latest technologies
dancingbaby wrote:
what is windows?
 
I was born intelligent
Education ruined me!.
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 well that was my signature 
what is windows?
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He intially stated he was a network engineer. Why would he need the SDLC (Software Development Life Cycle) ??? Just curious!
Yes, I program in VB, but only to feed my addiction to a warm place to sleep and food to eat!
Visit my Code Project blog (Mobile Audio project)[^]
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If you guys would have to make an educated guess what would you say the going rate for a Jr. Programmer is now days? From what I have gathered the average is about 46K . Any response is appreciated. Thanks.
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I have one jr developer now that isn't worth a nickle.
It depends on the skills and area. C/C++ pay more than VB.
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