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That would work pretty well if the change would take place immediately, rather than only after TDL or the PC has been restarted. In other words, when I snooze a Reminder for 10 minutes, would the next Reminder popup show that value, or only popups that appeared after some sort of restart action?
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Maybe we are talking about different things, but after the first import-dialogue you get a second dialogue where you can select the "Outlook-folders" (input, sent, calendar, ..)
Pierre
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Armando, first you need to open .ics from your colleagues in your Outlook. Then try to import calendar items by "Tools - Import Tasks - Format: Microsoft Outlook" as it was mentioned by Pierre, just click "Change..." current folder and choose the one you imported .ics (another copy of Calendar I guess).
Alex
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Thx a lot for all your comments.
In summary, the messages I got were that the following aspects of TDL's UI could be off-putting:
- The plainness of its styling
- The visual complexity
- The lack of more 'goal-oriented' workflows
So now what I want are concrete suggestions in each of these 3 areas, and the format I would like in each of the areas is this:
- Images of any application interfaces (not just tasklist-related) that you find beautiful, together with a statement of why you feel they are beautiful. Windows, Mac or Linux.
I would also invite you to take a screenshot of TDL and 'make' it more beautiful by crafting bit of other apps on to it.
- Images of TDL that you have 'doctored' to make them appear less complex, including hiding features that you consider 'advanced'.
- Specific suggestions for features that are more geared to users' outcomes, various use-cases that we can incorporate into workflows. Perhaps even a completely separate and optional menu structure for newcomers.
Notes:- I know that I am entering a dangerous place in asking for opinion, but I am committed to allowing everyone to express their own views, so please feel safe about making 'out-there' suggestions.
- Please also try to avoid 'wordy' descriptions, they don't really help me
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(Please pardon the length, I guess there's a bit of passion coming out, here.)
For me TDL is beat, out of the box, for reasons that have very little to do with the program itself:
- it's intimidating, or, as some say, busy
- for some reason I can't fathom, the concept of sub-tasks is difficult / non-intuitive to understand for the phone / tablet generation. This is the only reason I can think of as to why every task manager on the planet doesn't have the concept of sub-tasks baked into the very premise of the effort. How can the concept of grocery list not have inherently required a Meat subsection, is beyond me.(Just try transforming a recommended daily allowances / food guide on top of a grocery list, and not have to try and figure out do you have enough portions for X number of meals for Y number of people, across Z number of days, broken down by food group! Sadly, neither beer nor desert classify as food groups. Sub-groups, or contexts ... arguable.)
- Palm (I'll guess) made the PIM popular. Tasks (TDL) are the least favourite cousin of the PIM, especially if you try to define a line between event calendar entries (pick up milk), project planning (go shopping), and todo's, some of which are context and time sensitive. (You have a task list of which some portion of entries have corresponding contextual calendar entries. OK, I'm getting groceries, and there's a pharmacy in the same mall. And bring home pizza.)
- it's the ecosystem that surrounds TDL more than TDL itself. Aside from the PIM / calendaring aspects, where is the user community (the user community, not the programmer or geek community), mutual support, documentation, and so on. i.e. All the things that cost money that Dan.G's not interested in (nor should he be, if coding is his thing) - except, wait for it, it's a free program. There's no wonder this isn't as around or as pretty as other -commercial- products. Nor should it be. But the ecosystem lack holds TDL back. pbworks nothwithstanding - which for years I've seen hasn't been touched in years. (Working on this, now.)
- so, for TDL to be more successful, at least at an introductory / superficial level, it must integrate into other PIMs out there. [Don't even mention Outlook - I will not ever own it.] If Palm introduced and made popular the PIM, then the world spun backwards when it introduced Android. No PIM, local sync., all of that rich, good, user happy stuff, got left by the wayside. Google calendar is a joke (can't even tick off a task as being completed), Google tasks is even worse - so many attributes missing and anyone thinking Google will ever do anything with it is fantasizing somewhere I don't want to be near. Even ToodleDo, apparently reasonably popuplar (and 'pretty', vis a vis TDL, but not MLO), is able to get away with subtasks that aren't. For money even. Summary: There is no PIM ecosystem out there for TDL to integrate into. There's only the web 2.0 app nonsense that has lost local storage of my own data, tight / easy to use interfaces, keystroke oriented.
- What is TDL? It's a project manager (ick, intimidating), no, wait, it's a list manager (less intimidating), no it's a life manager, it's a goal roadmap, it's a todo list keeper, it's a tasklist manager (never mind the apparently intellectual exercise necessary to understand that tasks are todos and vice versa), it's a GTD system (a wha?), it's a ... WHAT THE HECK IS IT??? It's all of those things, in a generic, universal interface. Which makes it hard to suck up and realize I want to spend many hours here because IT WILL MAKE MY LIFE BETTER!
- Dropbox coming along, and Android app., since (see, world moving along), has brought me back to TDL. So, I have a way to keep (cross-platform and cross-computer, because of external forces), share with my TEAM, and some of the ecosystem misses in today's world are now present. To TDL's benefit! And all beyond the control, and necessary expenditure of effort, of TDL. So leverage / publicize it - 'it fits within your current workflow and makes your life better! Buy today! Quantities are limited! Comes in chocolate too!)
Having said this, some easy things to do:
- start a google group, or something. Better with a wiki. pbworks appears nice enough at start, but is missing lots. More user driven than not - Dan.G. need not watch it every other second. [Note: This is not in place of this forum. Or pbworks, or at least not yet.] Start pulling together the rich user community experience to leverage off each other - particularly the non-geeks and coders. Google todolist and you'll find references on all sorts of web sites - instead of one major one-stop shopping TDL info central.
- right-click a task and post to my google calendar - equivalent to 'share as' present in Android - both TDL and MLO. I say Google only because it has become ubiquitous, no matter how bad the functionality is. (Go figure.) Which is to say, anything that comes out on a go forward basis is going to be Google aware - or that anything else is going to go nowhere. Anything more can come elsewhen - (storage in google docs, etc., as present, is wonderful - except the Android app says it can't save to docs, only Dropbox). Storage is NOT PIM integration. So Google Calendar and Tasks integration (you'd be the first app I know of to integrate what should never have been separate in the first place - Google subtasks with dated items appearing in the calendar simultaneously.) Why does this matter? Because everything else in the world is now keying off Google (only thing out there). Be it colours, presentation, alerts, widgets, sharing - you name it. And TDL would come along for the ride. (Heck, integrate / merge with Pimlical - subtasks are the only thing it's missing. Not saying Pimlical is all there yet, but their history shows they know what's what and are actively working towards where the world already was - in Palm, that disappeared with Android and Google. Just, like TDL, there's only so many programmers available and hours in a day.
- change preferences to have one (left) line (tab?) per right-window. It took me far too long to realize when I clicked on the 2nd left line I was still in the same window on the right as when I was on the top line. When I first encountered this years ago, my gut started telling me I wasn't in a program I wanted to spend hours of my life in. It all makes sense once you're used to it, but it's not intuitive / consistent with other software, even it is easier to program - and having encountered it, one starts looking askance at every other aspect of the program. Just about the first thing I do with any new piece of software is look at the preferences.
- change the default view at first open to maximized with notes, checkbox and title only. Take the intimidation factor away. Let them sink into that much of TDL before going deeper. Anyone looking for more will have seen the possibilities in screenshots or wherever, and know it's in there, they just have to turn something on - or they wouldn't be trying TDL in the first place. Include an initial popup of 'press Esc for detailed view' or something.
- here's an idea just thought of, see if it resonates. One comes to TDL looking for 'a something', to solve a need - not a Swiss Army knife of incredible functionality and flexibility. Don't want to call this themeing, but, what if an initial (install?) dialogue asked what you're initially looking to do with TDL? If it's 'todo/list/task manager' set some default preferences / initial views appropriately. e.g. Little or no date columns, maximized with notes view, etc. If it's 'project management' then a different initial view results, with many date fields visible. No doubt there are others, but can the extraneous, intimidating, 'not what I'm here for' aspects of "I'm trying this software because" aspects be removed - at least long enough to get comfortable and realize, YES, this IS where I really want to be.
- I hesitate to say this, in this so called paperless age, but could a print (output) wizard be created? a la Report Writers. (Custom headers, templates, etc. Think old dBase 3, or even LibreOffice Base.) No man lives alone, and one doesn't come to such software as TDL if they're not working with others, really. So, in some fashion I'm going to share with someone this is my list, or this is some wonderful software I'm using ... see? And every time someone shows such to someone else, they're starting to evaluate whether or not TDL would be useful to them. If that demonstration looks tightly applicable, clean and easily integrates into their own current workflow, to their particular use case, then you've just acquired another user. But I won't even show it to you if ... (and the word on the wonderfulness of TDL doesn't get spread around as much as it otherwise might).
The program is solid, its GUTS are magnificent. It's interface is clean and simple, which REALLY attracts me to it and keeps me coming back. But software does not live by code alone - it must integrate with the rest of one's life, including calendars. And that is a continuously moving target - witness today's prevalence of Android and Google. Neither of which were predictable in Palm's heydey. And somehow the world went backwards, post-Palm, losing established functionality in Google, yet somehow being so successful as to have become ubiquitous. I believe the era of standalone non-integrated software is gone. And web 2.0 apps (read, subscription revenue for program development costs) becoming all pervasive - sadly. The latter also meaning it is no longer sufficient to code well only - one must have graphics artists, marketers, and support contributors surrounding them. Even if I only want to code, and there already aren't enough hours in the day.
Thank you again, Dan. G., for being here!
CDN$0.02
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