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Congrats
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.0
My goal in life is to have a psychiatric disorder named after me.
I'm currently unsupervised, I know it freaks me out too but the possibilities are endless.
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![Java | [Coffee]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/coffee.gif)
Awesome.
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I am curious about other peoples views here. But this is my take on this is,
in ROUGH Order:
1) Analysis Skills (Breaking Down and Understand problems)
2) Programming/Testing Skills (Strong desire to test code and at least regression testing)
3) Skills using Tools (Excel, grep, etc)
4) A desire to learn new things
5) Communication Skills (Letting people know what the trade offs are, and impact of changes, etc)
6) People skills a plus...
So, strictly speaking, a severe introvert can easily be a developer, but will have issues with the last two items. Some times you want this person on the team (they write what other developers use).
I am thinking about this, as I am an older programmer who is talking to more young kids about careers in software development.
Anyways, it is interesting that managers just invert the order (LOL, almost kidding).
Are there any other skills... I am trying to create a Graphic of "sized bubbles" indicating
different types of programmers based on depth of enjoying each piece...
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A sense of humor because there will be a lot of times when you want to say "are you f***ing kidding me" but realize it is a rhetorical question. 
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
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The only weakness I see in your list is 4 -- by stating it as a "desire" it tends to become an end-in-itself.
Which leads to "I need to learn something new, what can I learn?", and that can result in the problems expressed in So many frameworks...[^] when the developer now wants to throw everything he's learned at a problem regardless of whether or not it adds positive value.
This is made worse by employers (including mine) pushing employees to learn stuff just so they can put it in an annual review and check off "personal or career development". 
Directed learning -- seeking and trying tools to help with an existing and immediate problem -- is necessary, so willingness and ability to learn new things is important.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: Which leads to "I need to learn something new, what can I learn?",
What would be valuable for me to learn?
I don't understand most humans, so I went for a dip into psychology. I still do not understand humans, but the insight that we are all lunatics was very valuable.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: This is made worse by employers (including mine) pushing employees to learn stuff just so they can put it in an annual review
All of what you say is definitely true.
I think what you we are all looking for is, "The ability to implement the correct solution after weighing the trade-offs of each."
Instead of, "I just learned this cool new technology and I've jammed your software into it" 
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Great Point!
This gets into continuous improvement as opposed to busily learning new stuff.
I like the clarity changing that wording would provide, and putting a "why" behind it...
Thanks
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Personally, I'd move #4 & #5 into a tie above the current #3 but that's just me...
Contrary to popular belief, nobody owes you anything.
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Mike Mullikin wrote: Personally, I'd move #4 & #5 into a tie above the current #3 but that's just me...
Dare I ask why?
What type of Development do you do? At what level?
(I am not saying you are wrong, I am trying to understand your value system/skill set,
such that IF I run into someone similar I might be inclined to point them towards your
style/type of development).
For the record, using various tools (for me) is about Analyzing/Testing/Sifting through data.
It aids in the decision making process/analysis and potentially communications...
I appreciate the feedback!
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Kirk 10389821 wrote: What type of Development do you do? At what level?
Semi-retired when it comes to actual coding these days. A few years back it was C++ with MFC. As for level... I have to admit my pure knowledge of the language and framework was average at best. However, I excelled on your trait #1 (Analysis Skills (Breaking Down and Understand problems) as well as debugging and communication skills. IMHO the communication skills are important not only to express ideas but to truly understand specifications, user complaints, exhibited behaviors, etc...
I work for a machine tool manufacturer doing industrial machine controls - mostly CNC and PLC based.
Also, my opinion is that #3 (Skills using Tools (Excel, grep, etc)) can more easily be learned than the other items so they are of less value in the rankings.
Contrary to popular belief, nobody owes you anything.
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Perfect. That is what I needed to understand.
See, there are developers who NEVER SEE or talk to the users/customers/consumers.
Then there are those that LIVE and DIE with the users. In your case, you can't
even start CNC work without some kind of interaction. Either with a physical part,
or a specific example of a situation.
This is important stuff. It goes back to WHY I am asking the questions. To me,
the perfect job is a GOOD fit between what you enjoy, and what you MUST do. I enjoy
all of the steps. Lately, I enjoy the communication side a bit more than the coding.
Partly because I have developers who work for me, and almost NEVER meet the customers.
They work with them via email, and it takes a while to setup. But I have resources
I can throw the coding to, with enough explanation that it usually gets done quite well...
I will try to post back what I have gleaned from all of the feedback...
Thanks...
Kirk Out!
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Kirk 10389821 wrote: a severe introvert can easily be a developer, but will have issues with the last
two items.
No I don't.
Kirk 10389821 wrote: as I am an older programmer who is talking to more young kids about careers in
software development.
Tell them to question everything. If we had accepted that 640k is enough for everyone, we probably would not be posting here now.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Tell them to question everything.
I 100% agree. However, some programmers have given this skill a bad reputation by doing it rudely.
Question everything, but you must stay positive as you do it.
Also, some places of work just are not open to questioning. "Quit rockin' the boat, programmer!"
Those are the places that you should plan on leaving as soon as possible.
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newton.saber wrote: However, some programmers have given this skill a bad reputation by doing it
rudely.
I am not your most tactfull person. Some rude persons used the technique too often - you should not criticize everything, but question it. Research it, find out why things are how they are, what alternatives there are, what their merits are..
newton.saber wrote: but you must stay positive as you do it.
A turd gets called a turd, as it is the professional thing to do.
Being positive is the realm of salesman and marketeers. We deal with the real world.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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And I argue that Questioning the "givens" and Researching them...
Amount to ANALYSIS Skills.
Presenting them, and working with others are covered as well...
But this is EXACTLY why this is important stuff.
Architects Need more finesse in my experience, because they are dealing with Higher Level Management.
People who stop writing checks when they feel insulted, LOL. So if you like the check, you ask innocent sounding questions that lead them to better pastures
But I am appreciating all the feedback.
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Kirk 10389821 wrote: People who stop writing checks when they feel insulted, LOL
That is personal experience.
Mine varies.
Kirk 10389821 wrote: So if you like the check
Been liking it for quite some time. How about you?
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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I like the checks, but honestly... I would probably do this for free if I didnt have to work for a living!
Unfortunately I've grown accustomed to 2 things;
- Living Indoors
- Food
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Kirk 10389821 wrote: Are there any other skills.
Debugging. Many QA questions would be solved more quickly if the person asking knew how to debug.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Amen on the debugging!  It's the most fun part of the job anyway!
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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Hmm,
I have to agree... That needs to make it in there.
But in our world we tend to encourage setting breakpoints on all new code blocks...
So I missed it.
Good Catch. Thinking it is a recursively applied skill to the first 2 items
(Analyzing your code, and Coding) Probably will update to say Programming/Debugging/Testing
Excellent!
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Kirk 10389821 wrote: Programming/Debugging/Testing
Ya, that works.
I just know there are many people in QA who post code, simple code even, and then say "it doesn't work" and they "test" it over and over and don't know how to do simple debugging.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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#0 A passion for solving puzzles.
If you're easily distracted or get frustrated when stumped, software engineering is not the field for you. Unlike many other fields, a career in software engineering will require you to almost continuously face new problems and challenges. Unless you're seeking a career where you build almost exactly the same thing year after year. But that would make you a programmer, not a software developer IMHO.
/ravi
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