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I'm glad the software I build does not have the same size userbase as Microsoft's. Microsoft used to allow you to enable/disable updates but then got sued too many times by people who said it is Microsoft's responsibility to keep their software up to date and secure. So, now Microsoft forces updates and everyone else is complaining now claiming that Microsoft has no right to auto-update their software. When you are on top, you just can't please anyone it seems like.
I've used Apple, Linux, and Microsoft OSs and products over the years. From a user point of view and from a developer point of view, Microsoft dominates so clearly that I have no problem dealing with the imperfections. It used to be much worse dealing with Microsoft products but even 15 years ago they were still the best around, IMO.
Glad my problems are not like Microsoft's. I wonder how others would feel if their software were scrutinized to the level that Microsoft's software is. I think that may cause a few people to settle down but I'm guessing most just need something to be mad at and big targets are easy targets.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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I think they screwed up by removing your ability to control your own update strategy in Win10.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Just disable the update service, right? I don't see why this is such a big deal. Does that not work? No updates have ever messed with any of my machines so I haven't tried it.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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That's the point of it all - you cannot disable updates. Certainly not a normal user.
Even for a enterprise system they only let you postpone it (as crashing that would be a valid lawsuit, indeed, if they updated the system without permission).
Surprised you didn't know what's involved http://www.thewindowsclub.com/turn-off-windows-update-in-windows-10[^] - which is beyond most users.
In particular, you argued with my posts on this and yet you proclaimed RyanDev wrote: Just disable the update service, right? I don't see why this is such a big deal. Does that not work?
which brings me to a large WTF ! as it's a strong implication you defended MS without even knowing the true story!
Updates have "always" been automatic - but the user could easily disable them, or as I do, have windows ask permission each time - so I don't get screwed by a poorly timed event.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: Surprised you didn't know what's involved
Turn off the service. I already said that. 
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Your linked article said the same thing, turn off the service.
I am confused where did your WTF come out from.
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It's kinda ironic...everyone (by everyone I mean people who refer to Microsoft as M$) complains that Microsoft products are "least secure" without giving any validation or credence. Yet independent security expects like Secunia show MS products as being generally the most secure, and one of the reasons for this is MS' update strategy. IE is the most up-to-date browser on the web. As well as ignoring these facts, M$ bashers now want to complain about the very thing that makes their products the most secure! Seems some people just want to watch Microsoft burn *shrug*
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If the updates renders the system unusable for its purposes security is moot. Otherwise a turned off machine is the most secure machine you'll ever see.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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den2k88 wrote: If the updates renders the system unusable for its purposes security is moot.
That is true. However, from the reasons I have seen so far, what is killing the win10 machines are drivers. Not Microsoft code, but 3rd party code.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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As always. Of course keeping track with a OS that upgrades every week is kind of tough for the 3rd party developers, so good luck to them fixing things...
I'll wait until the upgrades/year will have dropped to acceptable levels or I'll desperatedly need to run something that only Win10 sipports and there is no dirty trick to make it work under 7.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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den2k88 wrote: Of course keeping track with a OS that upgrades every week is kind of tough for the 3rd party developers
I'll refer to the title of my post and add that it's also tough for Microsoft to make software that works with thousands and thousands of vendors who have drivers for so many different hardware configurations.
It is impossible for Microsoft to test every possible combination, obviously.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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den2k88 wrote: keeping track with a OS that upgrades every week is kind of tough for the 3rd party developers
Let me introduce you to Linux, where you seriously start wondering if you've lost internet connectivity when a machine hasn't downloaded an update in 2 days in a row.
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Yes, but they only take a minute or so, and don't require a reboot (unless it is a kernel update). Even 70 updates the other day only took about 3 minutes. And I have never had them break existing installed hardware. (My gf has win 8.1- can't upgrade due to drivers- but a windows update broke her wireless mouse. She thought it was a dead battery, so replaced the battery, but it still did not work. She had me buy her a new wireless mouse, but it still didn't work. Last night she withheld dinner until I fixed her mouse. I had to remove the unrecognized device entries in her device manager -driver update would not find the driver- and manually download the driver for her mouse and install it.)
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Of all things, what mouse, in this day and age, still requires a proprietary driver not already built into Windows?
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This was a Logitech wireless mouse, same as the one it replaced (which was probably still ok, but we thought it was broken). I think windows had an update (win 8.1) and the mouse would no longer work. I even told windows to look online for an updated driver, but it failed to find one. When I downloaded and installed the driver from Logitech, the mouse worked.
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With the driver (re-)installed, have you retried the original mouse?
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No inreoductions needed, Linux user since 2002 and I share your pain.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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Funny how the same message can elicit completely different responses from different people...
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F-ES Sitecore wrote: Seems some people just want to watch Microsoft burn *shrug*
Yes. But I did not expect it from this crowd. 
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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I agree with your sentiment and I get very easily bored with the "let's slag off Microsoft just for the sake of it" brigade but I do think this one could have been handled a little better.
Would it really be that hard to force the user to schedule a restart within a given time frame? These things take quite a while and certainly caused me a fair bit of inconvenience when the update disabled my laptop for an hour or two the other day.
Ultimately, they run a very real risk of people disabling the update service to stop this happening and that's a hugely counterproductive approach.
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The big problem with MS updates is how long they take...I have rarely seen linux updates take more than a minute, and the longest I remember took about 5 min. Also, the MS updates only update the MS software, but the linux updates update all the software (except for stuff I have manually downloaded and built myself such as nightly builds of some packages).
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F-ES Sitecore wrote: M$ bashers
Based on your post I can't decide which side of that fence you're on, given your spelling of their name. The 90s called, they want their meme back.
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Talk about selective perception. I think it's fairly clear from my post what side I'm on given it was all pro-Microsoft, yet the only thing you reference and take out of context is the one time I mock MS haters by using their lingo. 'Natch your post was up-voted though, I take the mick out of MS haters, you misrepresent me just so you can bash me for being an MS-hater when anyone who can comprehend English knows that's not right, and people up-vote it. CP as passive-aggressive as ever.
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Calm down, it's gonna be alright.
I did understand that your message was all pro-Microsoft, but was only making a point ("being on the fence") out of your use of "M$"--do yourself a favor and don't use the childish spelling, as there's only one way it comes across nowadays. Unless you're on Slashdot, where they still think of Microsoft as the evil empire.
Here, I'm gonna vote you a 5 to counterbalance. 
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F-ES Sitecore wrote: IE is the most up-to-date browser on the web.
You clearly do not do web development.
Jeremy Falcon
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