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W∴ Balboos wrote: does anyone care to take into account the pollution caused in the manufacture of the chemicals involved in the alkaline solution
Well, it says they're using Potassium Hydroxide which can be made from Potassium Chloride via electrolysis (giving of Hydrogen and Chlorine gas, which you could keep). It seems there are a few ways to get Potassium Chloride so I don't know what the exact by products of that would be, but according to Wikipedia you can also burn Potassium in the presence of Chlorine to get back to Potassium Chloride.
The only other by products are the body that you're disposing of, and they may treat the resulting solution to recover the Potassium or anything else they may consider valuable.
It certainly seems more 'green' than burning.
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You're really missing the point: where did the energy come from for the electrolysis of the KCl ? Doesn't that energy count (vs. energy of the cremation)? This is not done in solution, by the way, but on molten KCl [ 1,418°F (770°C) ] and that kind of heat doesn't come cheap, environmentally. And where did that KCl come from . . .
"Burning potassium in the presence of chlorine" is correct - and silly in this case. All you need to do is throw the potassium in water - get to a safe distance in case it explodes - and it will react with the water to produce your KOH and hydrogen gas.
But you must look at the entire system before you make environmental judgements. If you look at an ad put out by someone standing to make a profit - they'll ignore the history. Or, like in the Wizard of Oz, "don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain".
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I think one of us might have misinterpreted something.
I'm saying KCl + H20 => KOH + H + Cl to produce the potassium hydroxide via electrolysis, which is safer than putting some potassium in some water. I don't believe you'd even need to heat this for it to work.
You need a lot of energy to cremate a body too, and there are a lot of factors involved in calculating the total cost for each (Depending how far you want to look). But I reckon making people into soup has the potential to be much more efficient than burning them.
Perhaps if we chuck some water in with the body when we cremate somebody, and drive a steam engine off that to generate some electricity to produce the KOH 
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Anthony Mushrow wrote: I'm saying KCl + H20 => KOH + H + Cl to produce the potassium hydroxide via electrolysis,
No No No !
The potassium in water was a response to your Wikipedia 2K+Cl2 reaction.
First problem with yours: where does the KCl come from? It's quite water soluble. Doesn't exist in nature, except perhaps in soil traces.
Second Problem Here's what your reaction should look like (what you have just is wrong wrong wrong!)
KCl + H2O -> KOH + HCl, which, if in water, immediately returns to KCl + H2O. That electrolysis will net you H2 and O2.
Heat it or not, it will never work as you plan!
Chemistry works, and has direction, due to thermodynamics. If you don't take that into account than you can make up anything.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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There are many ways to end up with KOH; Do it like the ancients:
K2CO3 + 2CaOH* -> 2 KOH + CaCO3 (ppt)
The first reactant, called "potash" could perhaps be gotten from the other bodies they cremated?
I could make up many thermodynamically viable routes. All have the same conditions. There's no way to avoid the energy expense of going from "here" to "there". Just hiding it behind some shrubbery.
Consider, for example, the cost in energy to make a sufficient number of moles of KOH by the "YouTube" method to dissolve a body.
A much more viable route: allow them to dry out in the sun, crumble them and feed them to the fishies!
Notes from article:
He says it’s roughly 65lb per 600lb of water.
The powerfully alkaline solution, with a pH of about 14, is heated to 152C (306F), but because the digester is pressurized it does not boil.
That's a lot of KOH and a lot of heat!
*made by heating calcium carbonate (chalk, limestone) to high temperatures
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: does anyone care to take into account the pollution caused in the manufacture of the chemicals involved in the alkaline solution? There's energy. There's the by products. Just to start. What you've done in this farcical "green" solution is moved the pollution off to somewhere else where you don't have to think about it.
Plus the transportation and storage of these chemicals.. yeah, it seemed a bit rich calling it "green" to me too. Kind of like electric vehicles being clean (moving the pollution off to a distant power station).
Now is it bad enough that you let somebody else kick your butts without you trying to do it to each other? Now if we're all talking about the same man, and I think we are... it appears he's got a rather growing collection of our bikes.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Electric cars? Everything depends upon where you get electricity. If you burn fossil fuel then it's stupid.
Literally, yesterday, I saw a neighbor who has solar panels on his roof - charging his Tesla. Similarly, wind, hydroelectric, and nuclear power make sense of electric cars.
Hydrogen fuel cell cars? Now That's Stupid. Where does the hydrogen come from? Water. How do you get it? Electrolysis. It would make much more sense to charge the cars batteries then get the energy from that electricity second-hand. And there, too, what energy source produces the electricity for the electrolysis?
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Quote: Hydrogen fuel cell cars? Now That's Stupid.
Why that stupid? At least Hydrogen you can store compared to solar, wind...
Only a question.
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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It's stupid because you might as well just store the energy in a battery in an electric car. Every step you take costs energy.
Also, storing the hydrogen. Not near me! That stuff forms an explosive mixture with air in almost any proportion. Also, if stored under pressure, and there's a tiny leak, it has a reverse Joule-Thompson coefficient at high pressure: the jet gets hot when it expands and burns (with an invisible flame) and soon after, a very unpleasant noise.
And imagine a leak in a car due to the consumer's excellent maintenance! Or after a crash! Everything's wrong with hydrogen-powered vehicles except the hype.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I think you should inform yourself how wide Mercedes developed this technic allready before more than 10 years...
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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Nothing changes the thermodynamics of the situation: all the hydrogen comes from water and all the water is split by hydrolysis using electricity that could have charged batteries, instead.
And the danger of hydrogen, loose amongst the public and stored widely (for refills) is quite insane. Just because one creates a technology doesn't make it sensible.
Hydrogen Powered vehicles has always been a PR Hype for the auto industry and various others.
From Wikipedia:
The 350 Bar (5000 PSI) hydrogen tanks for hydrogen storage contain enough fuel for a 248 miles (399 km) drive.[3] Using 700 Bar (10000 PSI) tanks the range is extended 70% to 421 miles (678 km).[4]
That is amazingly dangerous.
If you check this,
This Is Why Mercedes Is Giving Up on Hydrogen Fuel Cells - Torque News[^] you should also check the comments. In fact, they're particularly informative.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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No - have left my body to medical science as I do not anticipate that I will need it post my demise, and then it's naked* cremation when they are done**.
* No box - not no clothes
** This may change with hospital best practice but is the current procedure.
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Duncan Edwards Jones wrote: as I do not anticipate that I will need it post my demise
No chance of a second round in 'The Mummy Returns'?
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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So now, everyone can be buried as a murder victim.
What will they think of next? </sarc>
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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It's only got to be a matter of time before someone tries it out on a live person..  ![Rose | [Rose]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
Now is it bad enough that you let somebody else kick your butts without you trying to do it to each other? Now if we're all talking about the same man, and I think we are... it appears he's got a rather growing collection of our bikes.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Methinks this should go in the Soupbox! 
... such stuff as dreams are made on
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Dissolved and flushed down the drain? Sounds like something out of a murder mystery novel 
Personally, I'd prefer to be turned into a diamond[^], but truth be told, it's really up to my next of kin. Funerals and burials are to comfort the living, so whatever comforts them best will be OK with me.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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So, basically, they're turning people into lutefisk?
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The description of the waste fluid reminded me of kvass.. or Coke 
Now is it bad enough that you let somebody else kick your butts without you trying to do it to each other? Now if we're all talking about the same man, and I think we are... it appears he's got a rather growing collection of our bikes.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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"Herb uses a hand cloth whilst operating." (8)
Good luck
Andy B
modified 22-May-17 7:32am.
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Tarragon
Hand = sailor = TAR
Cloth = RAG
Working = ON
Now I'm going to be craving chicken all day. :hungryIcon:
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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We can’t stop here, this is bat country - Hunter S Thompson RIP
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