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Foothill wrote: The boss should be asking you to bring them up to speed and not regressing to their level.
That was the idea, but because the boss doesn't understand the tech, when the junior says "wow, this stuff is complicated", well, that's when the fat lady sings. It's all over.
Marc
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I've been in the same case a couple of times.
Once (2008 or so) I wrote an application that would use WinForms and web services. I also wrote the simplest possible unit tests.
Then I was lucky enough to get the help from 2 juniors who didn't have a clue of what they were doing. So I asked them to finish some of the unit tests (a couple of lines each). After 3 weeks they still couldn't so it was decided that unit testing was too hard.
You can imagine how they felt about them "web services", exotic witchery...
So I quit the project.
Anyway, it is important to document the choices that you make in the project. Make sure that you communicate problems that you foresee beforehand, so that you don't fall into a game of "I told you so" later.
Courage!
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One wonders who you are supposed to be coding for, the client or the kiddies. Is your code supposed to be beginner friendly or get the job done.
Having said that I can see the point from the other side, someone, the kiddies, will need to support the app and his current crop seem to be incapable of doing so!
I have had devs who over engineer/complicate a solution for no real benefit (that I could see).
I have one MVC app that no one is game to touch as the guy who built it made it so complex with such a plethora of technologies, all the latest stuff, that it is unsupportable and will need to be redone in a simpler design.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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I go with the attitude of the kiddies. I remember onetime a consultant who built a library that do geological field mapping which suppose to be easily maintainable. Unfortunately he make the entire library so complex that not body could like it and finally abandoned to be done by in house engineers.
If you think from owner of the app perspective, they should be comfortable in what language learning, framework,... is being built. I see what they mention in your case is not appealing.
modified 2-Aug-16 13:20pm.
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i love the way explained things. got it really really fast!
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That makes me think of my current project
- only 128 pages of specifications
- different design on iOS and Android, great emphasis on native and perfect user experience
- multilingual
- must be finished last week
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From the few update I have followed.. the crux of the problem seems that project managers, you and other developers are at odds.
Whether or not your design is the bestest and simplest... You being at odds with other developer and manager is going to cause untold amount of pain.
Now, maybe this entirely your fault, or maybe the young developer are both technically stupid but better politically, or maybe the project manager is being stupid here pitting you against the young developer with the vain hope of a miracle...
At any rate as long as this political dysfunction remains... untold amount of pain will ensue...
That said I am not very good politically either... But I would advise a political approach to that problem...
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Have you considered issuing a coloring book edition of the interface specification? 
Will Rogers never met me.
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Hi Marc,
To me this latest chapter in the on-going psychodrama just confirms, unfortunately, that you are between Scylla and Charybdis, the rock and the hard place.
If you do not have support, and acknowledgement of your status, from the manager, and the juniors don't recognize your experience and authority, I don't think there is a positive outcome possible.
Wish I could say something more than: "commiseration is" ! 
«There is a spectrum, from "clearly desirable behaviour," to "possibly dodgy behavior that still makes some sense," to "clearly undesirable behavior." We try to make the latter into warnings or, better, errors. But stuff that is in the middle category you don’t want to restrict unless there is a clear way to work around it.» Eric Lippert, May 14, 2008
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That's kinda demoralising.
Is there a planning discussion you can refer to that points out that the decisions you made were the logical ones and the agreed ones? Or did you need to resort to the "Do you want this complex system be approachable by beginners, or do you want it to work properly, safely and efficiently and be easily maintained and extended?"
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: Is there a planning discussion
We can stop at the word "planning".
Chris Maunder wrote: Or did you need to resort to the "Do you want this complex system be approachable by beginners, or do you want it to work properly, safely and efficiently and be easily maintained and extended?"
Yes.
But, as elsewhere astutely stated, we seem to be coding to the beginner rather than meeting the application requirements, which are driven by the never planned/discussed real world requirements.
What seems to be missing from the CTO's understanding is that, having been through the ringer once with a rewrite of the VB crap that I was brought in to rewrite, and then really learning the business domain, I wrote the next iteration to really address those domain issues, based on my experiences working not just with the tech, but also talking a lot to customers and the tech support people and realizing the kind of tooling we need for responsive, well responses to customer issues, whether they're the customer doing something stupid, or network outages, or hardware failures, or bugs in my app.
Marc
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Ah, I see your problem.
You wrote what was needed.
You were meant to write what you were told to write.
Silly boy!
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: You were meant to write what you were told to write.
Unfortunately I was not told to write code that was "beginner-friendly." That was not in the requirements.
If it was, I would have used VB. 
Marc
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Animal Drones[^]
Enjoy! Hilarious!
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Glad to see that they did not stuff Leslie and sent him into the air as well.
And now you also reminded me that I still have to scrape grass and insects off my T-Rex. It would not be much fun if it was covered with feathers or fur.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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"Cannot connect to website".
Is it FB?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: FB
Unfortunately...
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Rajesh R Subramanian wrote: I don't get it at all - most people don't have a problem slaughtering and eating animals (which is fine), but they get all worked up if someone stuffs a roadkill and let it fly? 
I believe most cultures would consider this 'defiling a corpse'. Take from that what you will.
Legally, at least in The States, I think you're in the clear unless you're trying to fly someone's Grandma. Most cases of 'defiling a corpse' involving animals tend to also involve necrophilia, so it seems you can probably get away with most anything involving an animal's corpse. Then again, I think this may be the first time someone has used an animal's corpse in this way, so who knows (legally speaking) where this one falls?
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Now that's a true sailcat! Well done! 
Will Rogers never met me.
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This man needs to change his drug supplier.
«There is a spectrum, from "clearly desirable behaviour," to "possibly dodgy behavior that still makes some sense," to "clearly undesirable behavior." We try to make the latter into warnings or, better, errors. But stuff that is in the middle category you don’t want to restrict unless there is a clear way to work around it.» Eric Lippert, May 14, 2008
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...not a programming question!
A strange bug seemed to have crept into Iris's Win 10 lappy over the last week or so: Live mail would only start once a day, and Chrome would sometimes not start at all. And shutting it down was very slow - like several minutes. As an addition oddity, the Group Policy service was not being started.
Finally sussed it - I think - as being a problem with "fast startup" which seems to conflict with some apps: Chrome and Live mail particularly.
So if you are noticing this, it might be worth changing the setting:
Settings...System...Power & sleep..."Additional Power Settings"
"Choose what the power buttons do"..."Change settings that are currently unavailable"
Uncheck "turn on fast startup" and save the settings.
Result - all the problems above went away. Weird, but true...I think it's to do with not being a "real" startup like "restart" is, but a halfway hibernate which means that problems don't get cleared properly.
I can't say I noticed any real difference in startup speed, but it's an SSD in there anyway, so it isn't exactly slow!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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I never saw that problem with weven.
Anyone see it with weven?
I didn't.
How about XP?
I never saw it with XP, either.
Anyone see it with XP?
I certainly didn't.
Win '98?
No?
'95?
Not? Really?
How about 3.11?
Well, how boring.
Lucky for you, you've got the Best Windows Ever!*
* can I has my wu mao now, plz?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Perhaps it was just updating ?
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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