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Munchies_Matt wrote: Who knows how far we can push back the boundaries of physics?
Science does. If one makes unlimited assumptions that is magic, not science. And economists also have something to say about it.
For example there is an ongoing estimate of how much it would cost to build one generation ship, if I recall correctly it was 10 trillion dollars. And that is with no assurance that the technology we have would keep it alive.
Following is ascribing to magic when it suggests that anti-matter production costs will go down despite decades in which it has not gone down.
NASA - New and Improved Antimatter Spaceship for Mars Missions[^]
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Munchies_Matt wrote: Are these alien spacecraft?
The problem with this argument is the number of assumptions of which all must be true for it to succeed.
1. Life must exist.
2. Intelligent life must exist
3. Technological life must exist
4. Technological life must exist now (versus the other 20 billion years of the universe.)
5. They must have some form of moving through space that is reasonable and undetectable.
6. They must want to hide from us.
7. They must be able to hide from us, perfectly.
8. The last 3 require MULTIPLE technologies that far surpass anything that the earth has and some of which would violate physical laws.
And probably others.
There are similar lines of assumptions that can lead one to suppose that guardian angles must exist. And that unicorn farts smell like roses.
Munchies_Matt wrote: They could be, they could be some weird unknown natural effect, like ball lightening for example
There are a vast number of just weather effects which are odd and which people who have not study these effects would not identify them. Even when someone knows about some of these without additional information, not readily available to the random person at a random point on the earth, conclusively identifying them can be difficult.
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Yes. No. Maybe.
UFO sightings are a worldwide phenomenon, they are not just restricted to the USA. Are they true? Who knows:
1: If there were alien craft and they didn't want to be seen, they wouldn't be seen. Maybe they don't care if we see them.
2: If there were aliens and they were belligerent, we'd already be dead.
3: Why would they come to this mudball planet out at the edge of an unremarkable galaxy? Why are we so interesting?
4: How come they always land in A**hole, Alabama and not on the White House lawn?
Is there life out there, either in our solar system or on planets around other stars? Highly likely. As has been said, either we are alone or we are not. Either way the implications are staggering.
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Yup.
On the one hand, I think the chances of us being alone in the universe are vanishingly small.
On the other, my intuition tells me that the chances of us being regularly "buzzed" and having no clear evidence of it from verifiable sources are also vanishingly small.
Mind you until I had to deal with a poltergeist in the house I'd have been pretty "nah" about that sort of thing, too (long story, but suffice it to say that I've seen some weird s**t that didn't fit my worldview).
I guess in time we'll see (or maybe we won't!).
Anna ( @annajayne)
about.me | Visual Lint
"Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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Ditto. I have experienced a few things for which I do not have a rational explanation. This resulted in me being open minded about things ... but I consider the source of the stories I read, and most are not credible.
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That's pretty much my position.
Anna ( @annajayne)
Tech Blog | Visual Lint
"Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: the chances of us being alone in the universe are vanishingly small.
As are the odds they can overcome the vast distances to get here, or even to find us out of all the possible locations.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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Of course.
Even if you invoke a hyperdrive type-mcguffin the second is still a huge problem.
Anna ( @annajayne)
Tech Blog | Visual Lint
"Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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TNCaver wrote: or even to find us out of all the possible locations
Interesting additional problem with the theory that I hadn't ever considered.
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I am a bit skeptical of the UFO stories that are in abundance on the web. For starters, why do none of professional star gazers find them? Heck, what about wide majority of amateurs who too have decent equipment.
Do I believe UFOs exist? Yes. If I find something flying which I have not seen earlier, by definition, is UFO for me.
Do I believe there are flying objects from another civilization somewhere? May be. I don't know. It would not be smart to deny their existence. However, I wonder if they exist, do they just come here for a stroll? This is a vast topic IMHO and easily ventures into various fields of study that simply confuses me.
"It is easy to decipher extraterrestrial signals after deciphering Javascript and VB6 themselves.", ISanti[ ^]
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You do realize that "unidentified flying objects" doesn't require it come from space. Take it literally (ye-gads!). It means just what it says.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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How many of you really believe UFO stories?
Strictly speaking? Yes, I do believe there are UFO stories out there.
Whether I believe in them is another matter altogether.
What I'm amazed by is how the majority of people immediately make an association between "Unidentified Flying Object" with extraterrestrials when clearly, there's nothing in the definition that infers any of that.
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We obsess because they're unidentified. That bothers us on a fundamental and cultural level; we like to pretend that easily defined boxes are a bad thing, then freak out when things aren't in easily defined boxes.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
- Benjamin Disraeli
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OFU! UFOs are real until they become FOs.
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I see Unidentified Flying Objects, UFOs, quite often. It can happen several times a day.
Then I look a little closer, and almost always I manage to identify them, at least by type (airplane, helicopter, snowball, ...).
Those objects tha go out of my view before I manage to identify them rarely have any importance to me. I do not have psychological need to put labels on every object around me, flying or not.
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Do I believe that some people genuinely believe they've seen alien spacecraft? Yes. Do I believe those people are credible witnesses? No.
Extraordinary claims, extraordinary evidence and all of that.
P.S. Nobody's coming down the chimney in a couple days either. Both of these tales, while nice to think about, have exactly the same amount of evidence.
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"Extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence" is an unintelligent expression invented by a skeptic who was covering up the fact that he had already accepted the evidence.
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Bruce Patin wrote: invented by a skeptic who was covering up the fact that he had already accepted the evidence.
Presumably you can prove that.
Or is it just that you do not like it.
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Of course they always attack the US. They interpret our radio signal broadcasts as vacation video brochures. The biggest conspiracy is that those movies aren't CG - they're actually taken live on site.
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I thought that "UFO"s were chicken McNuggets? Oh, sorry, wrong "F."
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It isn't hard to believe in UFOs if you don't confuse the term with "extraterrestrial" like most yahoos seem to want to do. Every experimental aircraft that goes up and is seen by someone is technically a UFO as it has not yet been classified. Why do you think it happens so often near air bases?
Do I think extraterrestrials have visited this planet? I sure hope not. I mean, the way we treat our elderly, our soldiers, folks with different skin tones? Look at our own (US) government, the rich minority screwing the vast majority for more of what they already have in abundance. Nation states making war with other nations states over what - lines on a map, words in a book. I sure hope not. Ignorance rules over Sol 3 and it's embarrassing.
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PNutHed wrote: I mean, the way we treat our elderly, our soldiers, folks with different skin tones? Look at our own (US) government, the rich minority screwing the vast majority for more of what they already have in abundance. Nation states making war with other nations states over what - lines on a map, words in a book. I sure hope not. Ignorance rules over Sol 3 and it's embarrassing.
Not to mention that they are perfect in that their technology and intellect is 100% infallible. The converse of course is that they do crash and then there is vast, 100% perfect worldwide conspiracy which is hiding their mistakes. The later of course would make one wonder why the fallible aliens do not put humans in charge.
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UFO: Unidentified Flying Object. Yes, they are real. There are hundreds of them every day where you might see something in the air that you cannot identify. Maybe it's a plane, maybe a balloon or God knows what.
If you talk about extraterrestrial stuff then I must disappoint you but you clearly must be from the US. What is wrong with you guys in the US? Nothing better to do or dream off? The obsession with this BS is just revolting! 
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I rather believe that in the vast universe there aught to be ET out there than believing some deity created the entire universe just for human. Small mind think small.
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Even the Bible contains what some maintain was a UFO sighting. Full disclosure: I regard the Bible as a mostly well-meaning fiction. But the story of Ezekiel's Wheel[^] is rather interesting, as are some of the (ahem) "theories" that have popped up over the years.
Sometimes the true reward for completing a task is not the money, but instead the satisfaction of a job well done. But it's usually the money.
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