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I have the opinion that the person responsible was taking the fact his team were moved from an office to the large room we are all based in badly and wants to move back there. He has I am told a recognised physiological problem but... I always took the attitude of live and let live, he just wants a private office (which is barred due to corporate policy). His big mistake was bulling the young guy on the help desk. 
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I'm trying to update my skills, and do that while creating a new complex website. My choice is down to AngularJS or Razor. Razor is very attractive because I've been doing C# for ten years. But Wikipedia says the latest release is a preview of 4.0.0-rc1, which came out three years ago come November.
Is Razor dead? Should I bother with it?
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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Could be, and I hope it is.
On the other hand, when was that ever a reason for MS not to muck with a product every year or so? 
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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Vincent Maverick Durano wrote: The latest is called ASP.NET Core Razor Pages:
Ah, now that's good news, and I was thinking about looking into Core anyway. Thank you!
I don't have a clue what SPA is (though there's an interesting disambiguation list here[^], but surely you don't mean Socialist Party of America or Sperm Penetration Assay ) but yeah, Blazor looks interesting, too.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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Doh, Single Page App, I should have known.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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AngularJS has been replaced by Angular (current version is 6)
Razor is alive and well, I don't think it will go away anytime soon.
Blazor is something to look into as well.
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I particularly declared Razor DOA because of the runtime compilation of page rendering. Have you looked at what Razor, and similar tech, does? At least for Razor, IIRC, it creates code that "string prints" the HTML portions and inserts the C# code, then compiles that and executes it server-side, delivering the HTML portion to the client. It's slow and an absurd way of doing things, IMO, yet pretty much the only way to embed C# inside of HTML.
My personal preference, I think mixing client-side HTML markup and Javascript with server-side "pre-rendering" C# into a single file that really shouldn't be anything more than just the "view" and the "view controller" of what gets rendered on the client's browser creates an entangled mess.
So I took the route (no pun intended) of keeping my server-side code on the server, my HTML view and view control logic on the HTML/Javascript side, and using AJAX calls for data requests/updates and websockets (SignalR initially, but that became obsolete with direct websocket support) for dynamic updates.
And pretty much, I don't even bother with any of those Javascript MVC-style frameworks because doing this kind of stuff is actually really trivial.
On the downside, yeah, loading the page then calling the server to load the data adds an additional (at least one) round trip, but I've never noticed a performance issue, particularly as the AJAX calls are asynchronous, and the advantages are numerous -- server-side logging, clean separation of concerns, and having created a server-side API as a side effect so I can use the same POST/GET/etc. calls in headless mode -- no UI.
Razor, while cool, seemed to me to be a knee jerk reaction to the likes of things like what Ruby on Rails was doing. I also think that C#'s named arguments was intended to provide some "comfort" to people working purely in Javascript/JSON as the syntax looks JSON-ish. And there are times in C# where I love that feature -- I rarely use it, but it's awesome when you want to provide a value to a specific parameter without having to provide defaults for all the other optional parameters. Without named arguments, the C#-client-side-HTML would look horrid, particularly when using ASP.NET controls, which suck anyways, but that's another story.
In fact, by ditching the entire ASP.NET / Razor stack, my websites are blindingly fast, in my not so humble opinion.
[edit] But as a result of my choices to provide maintainable code and performant web sites, my "years of experience" at ASP.NET / Razor are minimal and therefore my job choices are severely reduced. [/edit]
So that's my 2c. 
Latest Article - A Concise Overview of Threads
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Razor is basically ASP Classic with C# as the scripting language.
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I absolutely detest the mixing of server and client concerns that WebForms and Razor represent, and generally agree with your assessment. Razor reminds me of the old inline PHP rendering mechanisms, and all the lack of clarity that system involved.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity."
- Hanlon's Razor
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At least your years of experience include MVC. I get the concept at a 10,000-foot level, but have never used it. I'm still an old Web Forms codger.
Yeah, Razor just looks like a way to use C# with the same approach used by Classic ASP (and PHP). Which isn't a lot different from the Angular approach, or Rails, as you pointed out. Yuck. Funny how old things keep being reinvented.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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With today's data-driven sites, there always will be a need for request time calculations.
Many have said that Razor resembles Classic ASP or PHP, you could also argue it resembles CFM as well as the ASPX engine which WebForms builds upon. This would make sense, as it is all doing the same thing of interpreting at time of rendering. I see nothing evolutionary or revolutionary in any of these new um-er frameworks. I really never liked the canned "html helpers" that ASPX & Razor offer and would prefer to use my own extension methods.
I have no issues of the "pre-render" concept; in all reality all of the content-blocks could just be (Div) IDs to populate from a get-page-content JSON call (to a C# call as you suggested)
Director of Transmogrification Services
Shinobi of Query Language
Master of Yoda Conditional
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Have you maybe written an article of your approach? It sounds pretty cool and I'd like to see it in action if possible.
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Jacquers wrote: Have you maybe written an article of your approach?
Not yet, it's one of those "on the stack of things to write about."
Latest Article - A Concise Overview of Threads
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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It is curious that you think that mixing HTML and Javascript with C# is a mess, when the mixture of HTML and Javascript itself is a complicated mixture of design and code. That's why I've been rejecting the development of WEB applications for a long time and I focus on the development of Apps using frameworks where design and code are separated. I hope that with Webassembly we can overcome the horrible mix of design and code that is the HTML+Javascript framework.
Sorry for my bad English
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So thats a no from you on Blazor?
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dennis Cruise wrote: So thats a no from you on Blazor?
Not necessarily. Nobody said I can't be contradictory.
Latest Article - A Concise Overview of Threads
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Current version is 3.2.6, available on NuGet; release was earlier this year.
I don't think Razor is dead, I just think that there really isn't that much more to add to it as it is a layout engine to create HTML, which has been stable pretty much for a few years now
Director of Transmogrification Services
Shinobi of Query Language
Master of Yoda Conditional
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That's what I get for believing a Wikipedia page.
Thanks!
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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If you're going to update your skills, do neural networks instead, and ignore the front-end for one more year.
Browser tech and UI in general has been stabilizing and synching up ever since HTML5.
WASM is expected to unify the entire stack into a single dominant language. The milestone we need to reach for that to happen, is a workable garbage collector in WASM.
Meanwhile, everyone and their cat are preparing to fight for stack dominance.
Rust and Qt are already actively going for it, but they have a relatively small following with limited tooling.
C# is currently hitching a free ride on Mono's GC implementation, which is no-where near stable enough, but good enough to build exploratory tooling with like Blazor.
Meanwhile, .NET Core team is porting everything UI related and Enterprise-legacy related, shoring up for the paradigm shift that's inevitable.
I'm guessing Oracle will f*** up during all of this (hey, it's what they do) and miss the opportunity to solidify Java as the dominant language.
If we're lucky, we get a full C# stack by 2020, ending this era of language-war nonsense.
I don't care who wins it, as long as we unify the stack in the progress.
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I've already generated a secret code on this contest entry, *BUT* I've not got an Amazon gift card. Should I re-generate the code again to receive it ? 
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