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and somehow, the residue from having just been here will remain...
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After playing around with Docker I started wondering if something exists that provides similar functionality for Windows. Say I have a new laptop that I got from HP (I do), I want to be able to create a VHD that I could somehow launch that would then virtually store any changes to my Windows installation, files, registry, etc as another layer on top of what is running on my laptop. I would then be able for example install development software like Visual Studio. Even better I could have two of these VHDs with different versions of Visual Studio, maybe one is a Preview I want to play with. When I'm doing with it, I just delete the VHD and my system is back to the way it came from the factory. I seem to remember 20 years ago when I worked in IT in college we had some software we used for lab computers that kinda worked like this, Deepfreeze maybe? Thanks for any ideas if ya'll know of something like this.
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what's wrong with virtual machines?
Installing Signature...
Do not switch off your computer.
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Since my laptop is a little constrained in terms of RAM and CPU I was essentially hoping for something similar to a virtual machine or docker but that is based on the System OS running on my laptop, rather than having to run 2 separate OS's if that makes sense.
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Get a new machine, if it's so old a VM will take it down it's time to upgrade your dev box. Seriously, virtualization is supported right down to CPUs now. And testing the latest and greatest software will all but force that anyway. I'd never use a VM for game development or anything graphic intensive, ever. But for most other things they work pretty well.
Also, it's been my experience that VMWare runs faster than VirtualBox. I don't have much experience with Hyper-V since the two aforementioned tend to handle my needs.
Jeremy Falcon
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Sounds like he just needs a new computer that's not 10 years old.
Jeremy Falcon
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How about this[^]?
Apologies if you've tried & discounted it - I have downloaded & installed it on Win 10, but not really used it in anger yet.
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Yeah, Docker for Windows is really great and what gave me the idea. I'm just looking for something similar but that is based on my actual System OS instead of a separate docker image, so I'm only running one OS instead of the two normally necessary with Docker. I might be misunderstanding how Docker actually works but usually the docker image you create is based on a different image you download, for example Windows 10, Windows Server, or Windows Nano, etc whereas I want to use the Windows OS already installed on my laptop as the base image if that make sense.
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pwhe23 wrote: ... I want to use the Windows OS already installed on my laptop as the base image
I'm curious to know the use case that makes that an important requirement.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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I'm not sure I have a great use-case other than crappy laptops, just curious after playing with Docker and the idea of layering. Figured ya'll might know something I don't 
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I probably can't help, as I don't know anything about Docker. I was just curious why it is important to use the same OS in your VHD as on your laptop.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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Years ago I used Altiris SVS. It was free and Symantec bought it IIRC. I used it for years after they quit making updates to it.
A quick search because I couldn't recall the name, led me to this: Cameyo[^]. At the bottom of the page, they have something called Cameyo Offline. That sounds like what you might be looking for.
I'm going to play with it and see what it is like.
Jack of all trades, master of none, though often times better than master of one.
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Wow, you nailed it. Symantec Workspace Virtualization is exactly what I was looking for (too bad it's discontinued lol)
Symantec Workspace Virtualization - Wikipedia[^]
Quote: Originally pioneered by Altiris and based on technology acquired from FSLogic and named Software Virtualization Solution, SWV allows applications and data to be put into virtual layers (application layers and data layers) instead of being installed to the base file system and Registry. This is achieved through the use of a filter driver and layering technology Altiris acquired from FSLogic. By placing applications and data into managed layers called Virtual Software Packages (VSP's), SWV allows on-the-fly activation, deactivation, or reseting of applications, to avoid conflicts between applications, and to remove them cleanly without altering the base Windows installation.
I'll have to check out Cameyo!
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What you just described is a VM using snapshots. Docker uses VMs under the hood, but it's an app container within an isolated environment. The keyword being app here. If you want a root OS type thing going on, you're looking at a VM directly.
pwhe23 wrote: After playing around with Docker I started wondering if something exists that provides similar functionality for Windows.
Just to avoid confusion... Docker For Windows[^]. However, it's for contained apps on Windows and not the root OS itself.
Jeremy Falcon
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Apparently it is possible to containerise at the OS level (linux anyway - LXC's).
Depends how you use your machine, for me my base (w7) machine is tuned for dev (i.e. many services turned off/manaul) so using docker at OS level wouldn't be a valid testing setup (even if I turned things back on in the container); for devs targeting individual desktops or/and servers it'll remain better to use a "clean/standard setup" VMs ("un-tuned" or tuned-like-the-customers-machines apart from perhaps a few other installed programs such as vs (or some debugger), and say ff and np++..)
Installing Signature...
Do not switch off your computer.
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Lopatir wrote: Apparently it is possible to containerise at the OS level (linux anyway - LXC's).
My understanding of it, the way Docker works on Linux doesn't use a VM. The OS provides the functionality to contain processes, which is what is being linked to. And so Docker takes advantage of that. On Windows I didn't think there was a way to do that without a VM. But, I'm a total Docker n00b, so who knows.
Lopatir wrote: Depends how you use your machine, for me my base (w7) machine is tuned for dev (i.e. many services turned off/manaul) so using docker at OS level wouldn't be a valid testing setup
So when you mean at the OS level, are you not using Hypver-V or any VM at all, or is it going through Hyper-V still but you're just turning off/on Windows features, etc.?
Lopatir wrote: Installing Signature...
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: So when you mean at the OS level, are you not using Hypver-V or any VM at all, or is it going through Hyper-V still but you're just turning off/on Windows features, etc.?
In this I meant my own machine has everything turned off I can get away with,
so to do effective testing I would need a proper VM (i.e. installed "normal" setup) rather than a docker container which relies on the underlying OS.
Some good summaries here: stackoverflow.com/questions/16047306/how-is-docker-different-from-a-normal-virtual-machine
(on purpose pasted as text rather than a link, in case you don't like links.)
About 1/4 ways down a good mention of the LXC'c...
Quote: Linux Containers (LXC) are operating system-level capabilities that make it possible to run multiple isolated Linux containers, on one control host (the LXC host). Linux Containers serve as a lightweight alternative to VMs as they don’t require the hypervisors viz. Virtualbox, KVM, Xen, etc.
Installing Signature...
Do not switch off your computer.
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Look at Turbo Containers - Run Applications Anywhere (Previously known as Spoon)
And stay away from Docker for Windows. I'm using Docker Toolbox with .NET Core 2 and quite happy with the process. I wrote about my Docker for Windows experience here and here.
Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote: stay away from Docker for Windows
I echo that sentiment.
This space for rent
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Too bad Docker is now another buzzword in the industry though. 
Jeremy Falcon
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Thing is, I have Docker set up on a couple of QA Ubuntu servers, acting as replicas of prod environments, and they are brilliant. It makes testing so much easier because the image acts as a clone of prod, so I have a faithful reproduction that I can test against.
This space for rent
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Maybe it's time I stop being old then and look into it. Be one of the cool kids again.
Jeremy Falcon
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You never stopped being one of the cool kids. Me? Well, I never grew up. Never worry about having a second childhood; don't leave your first one.
This space for rent
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Well I can't argue with this obviously extremely intelligent and highly inspired post. 
Jeremy Falcon
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